yeah, it should not become a "CL by committee thing"

I agree that that would be ideal. However it is important to recognize that the helping thing is largely undetectable and therefore unenforceable. It is important to bear that in mind when drafting and enforcing rules.

dumb to ban the guy who poured heart and soul imo

dumb is wrong word but I disagree... also it seems silly to punish for a CL that happened maybe years ago? but better late than never I guess, its not my event and I understand I broke rules

anyways deadman I hope you come back, and goodluck Masters, altho if you hadn't won CL I doubt this would be such an issue :)

So, how did you gangbangers all managed to get caught?

Do we have full time snitches checking the player flags? Did you brag about it on your Instagram profile?

Edited 11/20/2018 08:12:32

Question:

One of the trails this panel has judged upon was in regards to a player using custom scenarios to study a match, with another person as advisor.

Is the crime in question specifically the custom scenario or the advice?

I assume the advice. A player I assume would not be punished for the act of re-creating a game and playing against an AI, for example.

I'd like that to be clarified by the panel as well so that we know what's against the rules and what's not. To my knowledge there was no advice given at all. It was only a game played on custom scenario. So apparently that's a breech of rules in itself, somehow?

As for the bans - great decisions. I 100% agree.

Let's not forget that Deadman and Beren banned some people for half a season simply for logging into Clot with a wrong account (which is annoying for the admins to monitor and fix, but there was no intent of cheating). In that case a full season ban for clear breaching of rules is the least they should've expected.

@Edit: Good luck to Masters, I hope they find some new recruits and enter CL11 after all. But if they don't and are unable to fill the lineup without cheaters, maybe they shouldn't play? Seems logical. Is there something wrong in that?

@Edit2: We can think about changing rules for the future. But for now we must respect the current ones. Not banning the biggest cheaters would be a big FU to everyone who plays fair.

@Edit3: I'll repeat what ChrisCMU said. Only a small minority of the cases here was avoiding a boot. Most of them was just getting an unfair advantage. Somehow people seem to miss it.

Edited 11/20/2018 12:10:34

Just to clear that one up quickly.

In this case the actual CL game was recreated with the exact same distribution as the original game. We decided, that it's not appropriate to play an exact replica of a CL game against another human player.

We don't mind players to recreate a game and play it against their own alt account or the AI, to test how things would work out.

The other things will get addressed later.

@Edge:
We want to keep that decision to the involved players. If they appeal their punishment or ask for all the evidence, we can show it here.

Players will understand what rules mean exactly (there was a confusion of "taking over account". Few thought it means login to others' account and few thought it means login to play for others-which lead them to interpret that it is okay to login and activate a vacation). The evidences are simply to explain it and if the rules are to be written in detail, then it is ok.

@rak:
CL10 was a big improvement in that area, with the CLOT that allowed substitutions, but I think we could go even further in CL11.

CL9 also had substitutions, but players had to write in the forum thread for that and atmost 3days before the next game creation for that slot. CL10 it was directly through CLOT.

@Norman:
Do we have full time snitches checking the player flags?

hmmm, for first half I was checking :P it will be interesting to actually check full time.

@FSG:
Most importantly, do you really feel the need to tell people they can't play in this community event for one whole year even though some of them are amongst the most outstanding characters on this site and have contributed more to CL, the game, and other players than most of us ever will?

If panel had shown leniency/more leniency for the contribution, it would have been better imho.

Fuck you Rento

Edit: Want to join MASTER Clan?

Edited 11/20/2018 14:33:49

Masters can still win it all if the people who are still available want to bust their balls and get it done. It would be a good challenge, but they are good enough players to do it. I wouldn't doubt them if they gave it a shot.

So is it worth to play 3 teamgames? I doubt it. Someone else can prove themselves if the situation stays as it is

I can't answer that question, but it is probably what it would take to win.

Can I play if I promise to boot all games?

On the question of boots, you'd think a competitive clan would want to tell its players--

Don't get booted representing us here, if you do you won't be representing us further. It should be that simple.

Edited 11/20/2018 16:44:46

I know it's not ideal, But Master's are still in pretty decent shape to not relegate. Okay ye might not win and it's demotivating as hell and probably puts most of the fun out of it but people will say cheating isn't fun either. Recruit 1/2 players and you will have a fine line-up to stay up in A next season (possibly challenge top again, which ye guys can so easily do imo).

I don't know why but as someone who plays fair and was dismayed to hear about the cheating, I didn't feel the need to take it personally like they were giving me a big FU. (What does sound like an actual FU is using deadman's CLOT for a whole year that he spent at least hundreds of hours on and then subsequently banning him. This is actual meme-level stuff so props to that lul.) We all know rules are meant to create a better CL for everyone by deterring cheating and entailing significant punishments. I don't think it's up for debate that a 2 slot suspension is definitely more than a slap on the wrist, and I trust none of these guys would ever cheat again after all this. If they did, I'm sure there are fellow Masters who would rat them out. So what's the logic of banning them for a whole year and even punishments 2 years down the road when a lighter punishment would serve the same intents and purposes without having more of a detrimental effect on CL than necessary? To me, it seems like all we're getting out of it is a feeling of personal vindication which is utterly meaningless.

Edit: Want to join MASTER Clan?

I want to join MASTER Clan.

Question:

If a clan does not participate in a season, do they have to qualify again?

That might be reason enough for Masters to at least compete, given they will get everyone back next season.

If a clan does not participate in a season, do they have to qualify again?

Yes.

@Edit3: I'll repeat what ChrisCMU said. Only a small minority of the cases here was avoiding a boot. Most of them was just getting an unfair advantage. Somehow people seem to miss it.

@Rento: I would disagree. Except the tacky/ZBD thing from CL8, all the other cases judged here started from trying to avoid a boot.
Yes, some evolved into something larger, but all of them started from players handling the disappearance of one of their teammates.

I can't speak for all the players involved, but if they had a way to avoid the boots within the rules, I doubt many of them would have "cheated" at all.

Well, in your case, I don't consider that cheating at all. If that was all everyone did, then there would be no drama. I don't agree with the statements that they didn't have ways to avoid boots. Perhaps not ideal or defined mechanisms, but the panel clearly made a distinction between the step you took and how other people handled similar situations.

One thing I haven't seen is any suggestions on how to manage possible boots in the future. I know Kenny proposed RT games as a solution before, but that isn't realistic given this is a global game.