sounds like a problem that would be solved with RT games

-shoots finger guns in air-

pew pew pew pew

Share the information from the WG Discord if you really want there to be a remake. Without the information, I'm guessing you expected to play an AI but it was actually a human and you got out-tricked in this way?

Or you expected to play a Human but instead it was an AI that weirdly kicked your ass?

@Kenny RT CL isn't realistic :P

Looking at the game...it just looks like math wolf is using the feature that commits what you have in for you. It doesn’t look in the history like anyone has booted. Math wolf has been doing this in our 3v3 EU game too. Knowing that the feature is there I assume he’s put in his orders and it’s gonna roll. If I guess he’s gonna boot and try to take an advantage and he doesn’t, then I only have myself to blame. If I guess he doesn’t boot and he does the AI probably screws him up anyway!

re: Beren

an important distinction and an aside:

Distinction: Autopilot feature still requires a human being to both lock in the decision to autopilot, and the human decision to actually keep the autopilot orders locked in after seeing what they are. This is completely distinct from the world of playing against a human being versus a black box. So even though both actions use the AI, only the autoboot AI actions are functionally a different player.

(to preempt a response, "but autopilot could advance the game without you knowing what those actions are and so it could be the same" is functionally never true in a team game setting where a teammate can unlock to allow for a check on the autopilot actions)

Aside: I don't think autopilot actions should be allowed in a CL setting as they're using an outside source to give advice. If farah's going to be banned for using another player as a sounding board for games in a CL, I don't see how both the intentional use (via autopilot) or intentional threat (via not locking) of actions aren't fundamentally the same offense, outside of the preconceived "but motd is good and the ai is bad"

farah mostly summed up my thoughts on why this is a terrible feature although there's more nuance and force to the second point than just devaluing commit

on the more idealistic side of the "what warlight ought be" debate, the anxiety and pressure of making sure you get things right with a ticking clock and pressing the commit button is IMPORTANT. the feeling when you succeed because YOU decided that this was the course of action to take and settled yourself into that move and COMMIT is incredibly rewarding, and those building moments leading up to it knowing all too well how bad a terrible turn can feel and avoiding that is an important part of the game, especially with the threat of either an autoloss or a complete lack of control over your turn as consequences for inaction. Taking that pressure valve out and turning the game into "i'll hover these actions that i feel ok about and i'll change them all the way through deadline" takes out all of the urgency and agency of such a decision and makes the game more bland

and on the more functional side, it provides zero motivation for any player to EVER lock actions, because a player could always find time later to reevaluate. why take away options AND why give away additional information to an opponent (both that you are THAT confident in your actions that you don't need to abuse this function, and it communicates that you're actually the one that made the moves)

cowboy i know how much of a fan you are of how long this cl's going so i'm glad you support abusing this feature

good work

Edited 7/12/2019 22:48:44

I think most people found your 70 day vacation more annoying than autocommit. :P

>“But lolvacations” shut the fuck up I served my time and now you’re stuck with me for the rest of the year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I don't particularly expect a remake because I expect even if I get people to agree that abusing this feature in this way is bad, there would then be the question of proving malicious intent on the part of Math Wolf/[ARM]Belson, which I know I can't do outside of knowing through outside sources that Math Wolf has used this feature with regularity in the past and that he interestingly only chose to let it go to boot this turn where it likely would matter, after having an awful turn 2 and needing to abuse systemic bullshitery to try to turn the game around. At best all I have are those pieces of circumstance. I happen to think they're strong and relevant pieces of circumstance, but they're pieces of circumstance.

I just want this aired out so that people know how bullshit abusing a system meant for boot reduction has turned into a system to disincentivize ever advancing a game before timer and for creating mind games on who is actually going to play a turn.

The fact that people are ok with this is sickening.

Edited 7/12/2019 23:04:29

"cowboy i know how much of a fan you are of how long this cl's going so i'm glad you support abusing this feature"

Im just attacking ad hominem with ad hominem.

it isn't ad hominem if the person being attacked isn't making an argument

realizing i should have handled the elements accusing mw of cheating privately

i don't apologize for the concerns with the feature but apologize for how I handled this.

I sincerely hate that this feature can be used in ways outside of simply boot reduction, as I really dislike even the innocuous use of hovering planned actions for the reasons brought up above, but there wasn't any reason to name names in a public forum like this.

Sorry.

Even if I'm right and especially if i'm wrong.

want to note that most of my points above were intentionally not focused on the element of X player cheating, and on the fact that such a feature enables problematic elements, but that doesn't discount that accusing x player were still present.

Edited 7/13/2019 00:48:48

Fair. You'll have to forgive me of not knowing what the fallacy is, but essentially you equate the fact I like this feature to me liking the prolonging of the league.

yeah I know we're just dicks being dicks to each other it's all good

<3

I really don't like to do this, but I find what just happened very disrespectful. So I'll break silence and offer my input.

First of all, in the case we are talking about, it's not me who used it, it's BelSon: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=18581276 So if you accuse me once more or try to make up anything with respect to ulterior motives, I will report you to the ethics panel for slander, I'm done with this. We used this feature several times in multiple games to discuss the moves between teammates, not to try to get an advantage over an opponent. I think it's very likely that other teams used it as well as this feature is commonly known by now.
Additionally, note that using it on purpose to gain advantage would still be legal as well with current CL rules and actually no different than taking back control from an AI, which is also not easily visible and also risks the opponent getting surprised (as happened in our 3v3 vs. Outlaws).

Second of all: I can understand why Smoove got upset. He did a really bad move that turn because he waited until the last moment hoping to play against an AI. If he had paid any attention, he'd known that this feature has been around for months. I even used it (not on purpose) TWICE in the 2v2 FE game where my teammate is AI-Nauz, so he should have really seen it in action before. There are no excuses on Smoove's part to not be informed.

Third of all: I understand that Smoove wants to create drama and undercut Statisticians' good run in A. It must be very frustrating to admit that WG will possibly, some even say likely, relegate again at the cost of a clan they dismissed at the start. It would do him good to accept that has nothing to do with any cheating, but rather with their own play and avoidable mistakes like the one he made.

In conclusion all I have to say is that Smoove would do best to accept that he made a mistake, instead of trying to divert the blame to others. In my professional environment, people who consistently do the latter typically don't last long as after a while nobody wants to work with them anymore.

Edited 7/13/2019 07:13:23

I'm pretty sure that slander isn't against CL rules either.

The panel reserves the right to ban any player for a season for excessive spamming on the CL forum threads. Harassing the panel will result in a ban as well(You will be warned once). Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but please express it in a respectful manner.

This is the official rule.