(Copy pasted from Discord)

Why make a forum post and now confusing everyone.
This messes up schedule, it messes up leaders. It makes so much needless confusion.
The template panel as far as I'm concerned, involving GME 2v2 and Europa Magma is crap.
There are no options for variety if your going for a template that has every card allowed under the sun and a map that's broken.
All the 2v2 templates are the same practically. 0% SR.
Develop new templates and pitch them out.
So for this reason, I couldn't care if EU and Final Earth is removed. It's a different canvass (map) but with the same paints/materials (Settings)
So adding Final Earth and Europe makes no difference really. Yeah, argue about small differences but on the topic of variety, the idea was big differences (Deadman RoR would qualify, since big super bonuses changes the template big time).
But let's get to the stupid sentence.
"The Template Panel was given the objective to diversify the templates; they've not failed to do so. However, we feel like this objective should not have been given to the Template Panel;"
Why give it to them in the first place?
Why waste their time?
Why overrule them without consulting?

I can taste someone decided to voice their opinion and change the direction of this templates journey. You don't get a shift in direction like this.
Apologise, keep or revoke the decision, someone has to make a decision on this shitshow and get it back on track @Cowboy .

Very much love, your friendly irish player. Platinum x

@Chris - cutting down the templates to a certain number always limits choice.

Also, I was on the template panel last year and we were asked to consider variety. We left EU and FE in as "traditional" options, but it's not like the directive was completely changed.

I wasn't happy with this decision myself, as I feel it was disrespectful to force the panel to change the list of templates just because of either a small mistake on my part or a disagreement on a role of the panel by Clan League leaders.
To everyone on the Template Panel, I'm sorry to have wasted your time, and I'll try to be much more forthcoming with my messages and inclusions to the other members in the future. I totally understand anyone's decision not to join the panel in the future from this fiasco.
That being said, I did give members of the panel equal power to me, so they do have the right to veto any of my decisions as they see fit, it was one of the ways to keep full transparency and limit my role and power in the community as many wished.

I will not comment any further on this matter, and I wish to move forward.
Deadline is still December 1st, though I will give that as a soft deadline so if you're a day or two late that's fine.

-Cowboy

Perfect response Cowboy.

Now let's move on with the show! Fiasco over.

Now let's move on with the show!

I think the audit panel needs to investigate the clan league panel, for selecting templates without jurisdiction, before the clans can begin voting for templates.

I don't like these changes.
I think we should stick to decision made by template panel.
Of course someone can dislike the choice they made (I am sure everyone would like to see some other templates chosen), but it should not be the reason to undermine their competence.

What is the point of choosing if some templates like Europe 3v3 and Final Earth 2v2 cannot be excluded?
And why only these templates?
Maybe someone should said earlier to us (clan leaders) and template panel that they cannot be excluded.
It would be fairer.

I want to thank the panel for changing their mind about europe, FE, guiroma ..
to want something new is good! but, do not impose it, it's better. the votes are there for that
thx again :)

I see too many criticism.. not like a game.. keep calm guys XD

Its cool to see these 2 templates come back if will are in the official list its cool, if not I prepare my clan with new templates. Thx I really want to see next divisions :d anyone can say me when we can draw all divisions? thanks

A formal complaint was filed with the audit panel about this case. Since this is about the rules and the organiser's role in applying them, this falls indeed under our jurisdiction (while player conduct falls under the Ethic's panel jurisdiction).


We have studied the rules, which are very straightforward on templates, and find that the template panel's role has been violated. At no point was it specified that the clan league panel would play a role in it, or can reverse or overturn this decision.

Specifics:
At most it could be implicitly assumed that the clan league panel can fire the template panel if necessary which we believe is not relevant in this case as the panel did the work it was asked to do.
Amending the decision of the template panel looks to be in violation of this set of rules. Since there has been an official complaint and the audit panel rules that the amendment violates the rules, the current amendment is therefore invalid.
There is no rule stating that the decision of the template panel needs to be final however. If there is clear disagreement from the community that the resulting list is not "the best shortlist of templates possible", which is the case here, common sense dictates that their decision could be amended or overturned in this case.
The audit panel believes we should use common sense to interpret the rule in this case: amending the list is possible, but this is the role of the template panel, not the clan league panel.
Note: The rules as currently written imply that the clan league panel can only overturn this decision by firing the template panel and replacing the template panel by a new one. However, a potential decision to fire the template panel would be unprecedented as well and up for discussion, and likely be deemed inappropriate in a case like this where they actually did what was asked from them.

We would therefore like to invite the template panel to discuss and decide whether they want to amend the list of templates (with any templates they deem necessary after reading the comments in this topic) or not. Due to the deadline, this should probably be done as quickly as possible to avoid more confusion.

I agree with Math Wolf. Only template panel should be able to change the list of templates, but I hope they won't change it.

I'm not even sure most of the community is for a change? Who determines a majority? Most who agree won't say anything. Most who don't care, well they don't care and won't say anything, so is there really a majority for voting EU or FE in and putting another one out?

F.ex. i'm totally fine with the decision. It's tough to put out EU and FE at the same time, but i'm fine with the individual decision of putting one or the other out. I would give it a try now. I know 3 of the 4 3v3 templates, i dunno about the other, but i guess it's fine, since all of them on the panel know what they are doing. The 2v2 templates all seem fine and proven to me as well, so i think in both cases we got templates into the voting stage, that should get the deal done as strategic templates and that's the job of the template panel.

No doubt EU and FE are 2 really good templates, but in both cases we played them enough and since new templates rise, i think it's time to make a change and play a season without them. As i said above i probably didn't needed to have both beeing out at the same time. But well it is what it is. I would be all in to leave EU out this season and FE the next season or vice versa. Now both are out, well ok than this season is going to be even more interesting to see how other templates are doing in such a league.

Edited 11/25/2019 10:07:45

May I take this opportunity to ask audit panel about the disparity of ruling by ethics panel on account swapping for Photonic Symmetry/ps-ews case and Keyser Soze/Verbal Kint case? I think 7 months is more than enough to handle such a case and seeing how "fast" the current complaint is handled(within few hours?), is audit panel also showing disparity in handling issues?

Edited 11/25/2019 10:02:20

@Farah / CL panel

Just reading this thread, it looks really not transparent who/where and through which channel or mechanism said that 3v3 Europe and FE should be in the list. I was not asked and did not interfere with the tempate panel activity. If this is any relevant, as a community member, I am for full power to a template panel for many reasons and I would not even exclude to avoid the final voting and have the panel to decide all.

Second point, it is totally disrespectful to take decision bypassing who has worked on something for the community, even more considering that the result was in line with the objectives set at the beginning of the process.

Hope in any case that roles are respected and rules enforced. So, fully agree with Math Wolf point.

I agree with lineal2012.

What is the point of choosing if some templates like Europe 3v3 and Final Earth 2v2 cannot be excluded?
And why only these templates?

What is so special about 2v2 FE and 3v3 EU? Yes, they ARE played in ladders and isn't that enough time to play on them right now? Why can't they be excluded? Maybe try something new.... if you never try you will never know how it would be.

On discord, people are "discussing" what to do about this fiasco. What is there to do about it? I would actually want to see a CL season with no 2v2 FE and 3v3 EU.

The thing that is confusing people is NOT ONE PERSON is clarifying whether or not 2v2 FE and 3v3 EU will be played, which is annoying. Through all the discussion, the template panel still hasn't made a rock solid decision. Why did they at first say NO 2v2 FE and 3v3 EU?

I agree with the template panel for wanting to exclude those, because, I personally, would want to exclude them.

Why did they say we were suddenly playing them, but with no rock hard explanation? No one knows for sure, but here is my answer.

I think they switched because they were (some sort of "afraid") that the community was going to argue against them and find a loophole and the Template Panel would be accused wrong. The thought the community was going to riot against them.

Now, please, this is ONLY MY OPINION.

I also have a question. Did more OR less clans sign up than expected so?

Edited 11/25/2019 12:59:59

Usually for cl you make a game and invite the leaders so they know. I hardly come to the forums anymore so I just saw this thread yesterday.

Edit- now i see why. When this was posted, and the majority of the discussions took place, i was out of the country.

Anyway. glad someone signed us up.

Edited 11/25/2019 13:52:22

Quick note about template selection:

Some have pointed out that the map for Europa Magna 3v3 had an error in its bonuses. Lionheart has made an updated version of the map that fixes this error for Clan League. Please don't let the error influence your decision in rankings.

Unless the template is updated too, it still contains the old map version that has the error.

This is hilarious. I especially like the seriousness of Math Wolf's post. But remember when AI got four substitutions because it was for the good of the league? Rules! Love 'em or hate 'em, but follow them when you want to!

To be fair, that was under old administration. I've made sure to be as specific and direct on the rules and timelines regarding things as to prevent any confusion in the future. Oddly enough the only area I wasn't direct on was what the template panel was to select, as I felt that would overstep my bounds.
Seems from MW's retort, this was the right call.