I totally agree with Onoma and i don't see why someone should make a difference between stalling for a trophy or 1st place and stalling for regular ladder or random games. It just wastes opponents times, might annoy them or even affect their ladder performances, which in the later i don't think is really within the rules. If you're doing it yourself or in Rentos case make yourself ridiculous by defending obvious stalling cases, just be man enough to admit it instead. If you think stalling is ok, be man enough to just say it.

If you're talking about a community solution, might as well skip the bickering and just go straight for the good folks at the Azerbaijani Mafia? http://swkcw6eudl7lciek.onion/

After reading the thread, I would like to express my support to position presented by MoD.

@Rento:

When I downvoted with alts or used others account to down vote I said it was my fault and I said the acc count too, stopped at second time, as it lead to Pichu getting punished for my mistake-seems like an idiot getting confused with Meta/Metal/Mega Knight names and picked Meta Knight by using inky pinky ponky to ban. Sure you can criticize me for this or multi-accounting on ladder(before new rules came into effect), but don't think I was excusing stalling anywhere.

In CL10 and Cl11, in divisions I organized I wrote as request for players to not stall and both seasons I asked Avengers players to surrender games they were stalling. Problem is that most of the players in Avengers or in similar clans in qualifiers aren't involved big time in forums or wz discord to actually know what is stalling.

I am no lawyer like you to excuse stalling of players, so I didn't encourage them to stall and I am not a rule maker, so outside of suggesting and requesting players to not stall, surrender games which are lost, there is nothing I could've done. Maybe if you give the list of "everyone" who was bothered with it, I can discuss something with them to see what else I can do about it; if it is only krunx I don't like bad jokes.

@Hergul:
Rule is there to prevent taking advantage of forced finish; which means if a player stalls during end of season they can be punished.
Quoting Beren's post on ladder rules : 6.) Manipulation of the force-finish in the Seasonal Ladder is not allowed, and the use of vacations towards the end of a season leading to force-finish will be considered especially suspicious. Violations will be punished with a suspension. Fizzer retains the right modify results in egregious cases as has been done in the past possibly resulting in the loss of games and/or trophies.

@Fairplay Boy
I was referring to rules enforcment, as it happened that someone took advantage of forced finish mechanism and was not punished.

Everyone stalls once in a while. this thread is pointless. what will this thread do TO STOP STALLING? Nothing.

Santa Claus had a great post with great points.

If someone says in the game they are stalling, tell them to not, blocklist (if you are ok with it ;p) , and move on. MoD showed games of JoJo's and JoJo admitted he was stalling, which was good in the first place. But, stalling DOES get you better ladder partners and increases your rating more than a regular ladder game.

Unfortunately, there is no WarzoneWiKi article on this.

stalling in clan league is different then stalling in ladder games\regular games etc...

Stalling in regular games\ladder\FFa\team games you can tell them to stop, but who are they holding up again? most likely just you.

1v1 games: You can tell them to stop, but they are less likely to stop cause it is just you telling them. They may admit they are stalling (in ladder) to get better partners OR they may be stalling to just be a big pain.

Regular Games: This is most likely to stall to be a big pain. What reason is there to stall in this scenario? Most likely this will continue thru the game even if u tell them to stop. they will probably put up a good argument! I hope you put up better!

Team games and FFA's: Stalling in big team games and free-for-all's can be REALLY ANNOYING. it could be a 40 player game with 7 day boot time and one player could be holding each turn to the boot time. What I recommend is telling them to stop, first, in Private Chat. If they don't, start publicly discussing in Public chat and see if they then stop. One player who I see continuously stall is in Cats - Jason Walat: https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=17698053 - I will find more games like this - https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=18424974 - two day boot time with Jason's average speed at 1 day 16 hours.

2 day boot time - started stalling as game went on - https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=18005654

his turn speeds -

2 hours 1 minute
1 day 21 hours
19 hours
1 day 4 hours
1 day 14 hours
1 day 19 hours
1 day 19 hours
1 day 4 hours
1 day 13 hours
1 day 17 hours
1 day 13 hours
1 day 23 hours
1 day 21 hours
1 day 23 hours
1 day 23 hours
1 day 22 hours

-Stretching it to the hour! -

if you can read the chats (most likely ur pc will turn off since there are so many), there were public complaints about his stalling -

I think that is all I have to say - Goodbye

@Fairplay Boy, I was also bothered by your clans excessive stalling in Clan League. Both as a clan leader (I led Illuminati at the time) and as someone who was just plain fed up with Avengers clan selfishly holding up the start of Divisions C and D by several weeks by stalling in a clan league game which was clearly lost.

What does the state judge Beren has to say about this?
Question is how big and long proper sentence should be for those who are arrested and found guility in code name action "Stynx Stallers", which will be served in Warzone State Penitentiary.

Edited 11/12/2019 16:27:02

@Hergul:
I mean we can only report from our side; some times players(moderators) who see the report may play favorite cards. I remember reporting many players for multi-accounting on ladder and sadly few players used to swap their accounts often which indicated that they probably didn't even receive a warning.

@ Awesome Cat:
Oh! Didn't know it; if you keep it to yourself or complain to Rento I can't know about it unless I ask him about it. Did you forget how to write such an exaggerated post/complain at that time itself or were you writing it to Ethics panel directly about it-if so do give some insight on their reply?


@Lighty:

I read your post before the edit xD

Stalling sucks but I don't see a way to fix it, so we just have to deal with it.

On ladders, only Fizzer can make any changes.

In competitions like Clan League, a fix is already being implemented by having a set schedule.

1) Stalling is wrong.

2) It would be quite easy to fix without flaming with an auto-surrender rule. Say, once 2*income+armies is <X% of opponents', an auto-surrender clock of Y times the boot-time runs whenever player who is behind hasn't moved and their opponent has. Don't know whether Fizzer would go for it though.

3) The forum is full of crap about stalling, which is far worse than stalling itself. Discord is even worse, or at least it was a year ago when I gave up on it for its toxicity.

4) The people who get self-righteous about alleged stalling ignore the same behaviour in their own clan, or, in some cases, do it themselves.

5) My approach has been to rise above all this and accept that some of my opponents will probably stall as the lesser of two evils. Hence I never call people out for it, although maybe one day I'll get so sick of the hypocrisy that I start....

6) My guess is that others in my clan take the same attitude, though I don't know - we've got better things to talk about! That down-to-earth attitude and enjoyment of the game, rather than manufactured drama, is something that I appreciate. It's sad that this makes us particularly targeted for this crap, but so be it. Just keep rising above it.

7) Not being on discord or in clan leadership, I don't know about any recent incidents involving either alex or Jo Jo, but I have long since stopped looking at alleged incidents anyway. The lies and the flaming just made me angry. I do know they are both more sporting players than the people doing the flaming.

8) When you flame people, don't be surprised when they unite against you.

9) This will be me only comment in this thread and I won't read replies, but I'm sure that won't stop the flaming!

It'd be great to have an effective way to determine stalling, but a formula like this can only be used on overly excessive cases. Anyways, I'd welcome this...

The seasonal ladder is easily manipulated, already one or two more stalled turns lead to the same amount of matchups, that are too good for the stalling person at that moment and strip away the opportunity for good matchups for people who deserve it. Very few better matchups have a very big impact on the ratings and even future matchups, especially in the beginning of the seasonal

Good to see you're against stalling kicorse. It isn't wrong at all to talk about it and point fingers, after all that's the only method that's at least partially effective at all against stalling. Also, everyone can consider for himself wheter an accusation is gibberish or true, so anyone who points fingers indeed does it on the risk of losing credibility.

Edited 11/12/2019 23:06:28

I still can't hold back... I just have to point out how ridiculous this situation is. You always mention how egregious it is to call others stallers. You say you didn't look in any cases but since you know alex so well you know he wouldn't stall. You should look at his latest 1vs1 run for a change of mind. All you effectively did with your post is trying to silence everyone who is against stalling. Sure, some overdid it with accusations, but all you do in exchange, is claiming the real problem lies with the guys who want to make stalling cases public.

Also, looking away or just ignoring it when you see it by accident, doesn't solve a single thing.

Edited 11/12/2019 23:34:36

All you effectively did with your post is trying to silence everyone who is against stalling.

This is quite relevant. Also, lots of carelessness in here, which is naturally upsetting to the OP.

9) This will be me only comment in this thread and I won't read replies, but I'm sure that won't stop the flaming!

I actually got bothered by that, why would you join a discussion if you're only willing to speak up and close your ears to the others? I mean don't even get me wrong, I for one was pleased and agreed with most of your other points, except maybe 3) 6) 7)

Edited 11/13/2019 00:17:08

What about a ladder modification to auto-surrender on your behalf as a conservative mercy rule? You'll maybe prevent some legendary comebacks, but say something like:

- Armies less than 1/2 of opponent's AND
- Income less than 1/2 of opponent's

for 3 consecutive turns

results in the game automatically ending for you, whether or not you're aware of the situation. People playing on the ladder would know about this mechanism in advance; very, very few games would be affected (and those that will be, will be acceptable losses for the purpose of speeding up the ladder); and these stalling complaints would be mitigated.

Would have to convince Fizzer, obviously.

Edited 11/13/2019 06:34:56

The seasonal ladder is easily manipulated, already one or two more stalled turns lead to the same amount of matchups, that are too good for the stalling person at that moment and strip away the opportunity for good matchups for people who deserve it. Very few better matchups have a very big impact on the ratings and even future matchups, especially in the beginning of the seasonal

Maybe the real problem is with the system?...
What if nobody stalling but different game speed?
You can still suck much in the beginning if you got a (or more) slow motion player(s), no?

Btw, I can't understand that how can be so high respected (competitive point of view) the seasonal ladder.
Ok, very hard to win it, but then much harder to win the EuroJackpot...

And I don't say the stalling is ok (not ok at all), but these forum topics and flames are much worse imo :/

And the stalling is not a clear thing! Because when I was active, I remember that I played my easy win games much much faster than the games where I was in trouble. And not because I was thinking more in the harder games (and not for stalling purpose at all!), but because I am a lazy bitch and try to avoid the harder brain work as long as I can.
Still suck for you if I was your starting opponent while because the system you need fast ended early games, but hey, this is a (serious) problem with the system not me :P

Although I fully can understand your point of view too, can be very irritating got a slower player or a staller in the beginning in the seasonal ladder, but hey again, this is with the seasonal ladder, you can play in MDL or other great events ;)

I agree, the seasonal rating system is flawed. No idea why it's attracting so many good players... Maybe because it's exclusive and the trophy is hard to get? I agree it doesn't really make sense from an objective view, all i know is, i enjoy these seasonal runs a lot cause every single game matters more than on any other ladder...

You can always get lucky or unlucky with your matchups, but limiting that bad luck to the randomness of the system is so much better than if it's gamed by players additionally.

Again, i'd like to highlight that there are 3 days boot time for a reason. Everyone can use them to it's fullest, except for abusing the flawed matchmaking system please.

You can always get lucky or unlucky with your matchups, but limiting that bad luck to the randomness of the system is so much better than if it's gamed by players additionally.

But what is the difference? Pairing with a staller is still random, no?
I mean a staller will stall against everybody, not only vs. you.

For seasonal ladder you need skills to avoid slow players, players who will leave the ladder after a few games, bad ingame lucks with WR/first moves (because as you wrote, every single game is very important), etc.

Why only the stalling is the problem?

Ok, moral, sportsmanship...

All the official ladders are infected by stalling default, and this is not very important for Fizzer so won't be changed, thus better if you create a CLOT ladder where stalling is not a problem.
Wait, MDL already exists :P


But ok, you can try to find a solution, good luck.
An idea: community can create a Hall of Fame, where ladder No.1 players who got the thropy with stalling can be marked (or separated in a shame list ;) )

A thread like this and platinum hasn’t arrived yet...

I’m very surprised

A thread like this and platinum hasn’t arrived yet...

I’m very surprised

Yeah, weird. I think he retired after winning the 3v3 ladder! ;)