then basically there is no point in ascension and super ascension isnt worth it?

then basically there is no point in ascension and super ascension isnt worth it?

There are points in ascension and in SAasc. But it is just hard to explain and grasp the concept untill one has completed 10-15 idle levels.

In basic terms: ascension is useful for almost everyone because it resets the APs you earn from each level. If you replay a level, you will only earn some percentage of the APs you earned for finishing the first time (I'm bad with those numbers, something around 70% if I'm not totally wrong). If you already played a level several times, the APs that you can earn for any sebsequent finish will decrease even futher. After ascension, all levels will reward whatever they gave on the first finish. There isn't a real drawback to ascension, you just have to have finished the last regular level. Hence, you usually should only play all levels once, then ascend, and only then replay them.

Super-ascension on the other hand is more tricky to assess. Some find it useful, some will never reach as far as you have to get to even be offered the option to super-ascend, and the rest will fall somewhere in between. The point of super-ascending is to have some further challenge if you already played soo much that you have reached the fourth phase of advancements and still want to play some more. All rewards you got EXCEPT for artifacts get reset (and you can't transfer all artifacts, so some will be removed as well). But in exchange you get some "permanent" bonuses and the new levels. But you start all over again almost as if you just started WZI at all. So, unless you plan to play at least as long as you already have, super-ascension will not be wise to do.

@QU
To make a TLDR from Phoenix's useful explanation above:

- If you want to play more of the game and aren't enough AP to facilitate it (b/c of the 30% reductions), you should Ascend
- If you have Ascended many times and want something EVEN MORE from the game, you should Super Ascend
- In all other cases, you are already "DONE" with the game, don't Ascend, don't Super Ascend

Finally nearing SAC.

What’s consensus, 3rd artifacts? Money Triple strike and time warp?

You can still start your last upgrade before you super ascend right?

@Perfect

Yes you can start your last upgrade and then click super-ascend immediately. You can carry over upgrading artifacts, or cooling down artifacts, or artifacts that are both upgrading and cooling down.

I don't think there's any consensus other than "Alloy Value good". Some people did 3rd artifact. Some people (me) did +25% AP. Different people carried over different artifacts. Most options seem to work well.

yes guess it depends really on how your artifacts look. I can make an insane and still have 2 legendaries left over. so maybe that's worth it.

I assume you don't keep the stuff from the map like 4th slot huh? that actually makes me think the AP is better

4th slot disappears & you have to re-earn it

Artifact choices vary by play style, I preferred IM & TW as my 1st two Insanes before SAsc'ing

just did my first super ascension, wish me luck ;)
p.s. I went for 25% bonus to AP and took insane alloy value and supercharge army camp on legendary

Good fortune ... let us know how Insane AV + Leg SAC works out for you.

Insane AV will of course be great. Leg SAC may be lackluster until you get AcampB arti up to Epic-ish or IACP to 100%+ and if you do the mobile bonus & use SAC+FC, this could be a good combo.

Also, in case you haven't seen the advice yet ... do NOT attempt the new levels after EH/HEH until you get some better artifacts. Imho you need (minimum) Leg Triple or Quad Strike and just take your time clearing the levels using those, or combine with Leg+ Time Warp or Leg+ Inspire Mercs.

Otherwise those new levels get super dreary/draggy super fast.

thanks for tips!
yeah, I'll go for legendary triple strike, it should be relatively quick providing I'll get epic triple strike from hardened level

Why is Alloy Value a good artifact? I use my alloys to create techs so I don’t sell much of them until right before I finish the board. Am I doing something wrong? I use Item Value much more.

Upgrade the Alloy Value Techs, and use Alloy Values artifact @ Leg or Insane to empty Markets of their value. Buy/Sell/repeat until profit is 0.

Why is Alloy Value a good artifact? I use my alloys to create techs so I don’t sell much of them until right before I finish the board. Am I doing something wrong? I use Item Value much more.

Added aw1908's name to the leaderboard.

I'm getting close to my first Super Ascension. Digging a 70% Uncommon right now, which if it comes through will start a cascade of upgrades: Uncommon > Rare > Epic > Legendary, which will allow me to create my Insane TW. From what I gather I can Super Ascend during the Insane upgrade, but all the ones before it will still take nearly a week.

In all the conversations about which artifacts to carry over the SA, it didn't cross my mind that some would have bought the super camp (permanent super army camp) while others will have not. I have not bought it, and post-SA, it's been quite the grind. Any others in my boat? Or have most SA-ers bought the super camp?

@gincompetent, I think there are quite a lot of purely f2p players that don't want to buy the supercamp, and I think quite a few will end up going all the way to SAsc without supercamp, it's quite possible

The main reason Alloy Values is so good is that most artifacts “only” give a ~2x bonus to some element of the game (purchasing mercs, using hospitals, upgrading army camps, whatever).

In contrast, Alloy Values give a gamebreaking bonus to markets that is closer to ~20x than ~2x. Instead of buying one unit for $40 and selling it for $50 you get to buy one unit for $40 and sell it for $100. And then you get to do the same thing with a unit at $41, and at $42, and at $43, all the way through to $99. In addition, the artifact effect stacks with the advancement effect in a compounding way, unlike most combinations which have diminishing returns when stacked.

If there were no markets, Alloy Values would be fairly balanced with the other artifacts. But because of how markets work, it’s unquestionably top tier regardless of where you are in the game.

An Insane Alloy Values artifact gives you essentially infinite money on even the hardest levels in the game.

Edited 11/1/2022 23:28:24

Edited 11/2/2022 19:37:50

SaC checking in
insane alloy value
leg triple strike +25%