Thought I should treat y'all to another one of my (non) daily rants. Today's topic: SEAD and SE1W. More specifically: unbalanced start combos.

SEAD ist by far the most played PvP template in WZ. For good reason: it is a simple template and it allows for a short, casual RT game whenever one has a few minutes in between other things in life. Plus no need to think long and hard about optimal picks or extensive army counting and strategy ramifications. Perfect for simple brains like mine.

Edited 3/24/2023 13:59:58

BUT ... it could be so much more enjoyable if it offered *a more level playing field* for both players. Start combos often are very unbalanced, to the point were one player has virtually no chance to win as long as opponent does not commit major blunders. Some of you like and defend this, bc it offers less skilled players a chance to occasionally win vs. more experienced opponents. Fine with me.

BUT ... I *in addition* to existing SEAD template I would really like to also have the choice to play a "SEAD fair starts" version. And it should be a qm template and an idle arena template. Ideally replacing whacko templates like the totally atrocious "4 castles FFA Commerce" crap that fizzer keeps pushing onto me?

"SEAD fair" would be very simple:
* SE map - unchanged
* but a modded version which only serves up "balanced/equal chances" start combos for both players

I have no clue about or interest in creating templates or modding them, but there are many players in WZ community who are very skilled and love to do just this, right?

So, please folks: could you
1. figure out - maybe with help of AIs - the largest possible set of balanced start distribution combos (2 + 2 territories) on SE map and
2. create a modded "SEAD fair" template that only serves one of these combos (but still random which one)?

And while you're at it, maybe you could also create a similarly improved "SE1W fair" template? Manual distribution, but with *more balanced possible picks*. e.g. not a first turn bonus in SA and a wasteland in AUS.

End of rant and plea. Thx for reading.

I believe 5S's research already provides the most balanced set of starters for SE.

https://www.warzone.com/Forum/621318-favorite-cw-template-sead-analysis

WOW, thx Stefano! Had not seen this! Very interesting and helpful!
And thx FiveSmith for the analysis.

To really determine balanced start combos, more specific analysis would be needed: e.g. depending on oppo starts, it makes quite a difference whether you get Asia/Mongolia + Africa/Congo as start or Asia/Siam + Africa/North Africa. etc. Continents alone don't fully suffice.

Edited 3/24/2023 14:28:22

any estimates how difficult it would be to create such a modded "SEAD fair" template?

Wow I missed FiveSmith's thread too. It's really a great resource.

I'd be interested in seeing someone make a mod that alters starting territories if they're unfair. It could use FiveSmith's research to determine if they are or not.

any estimates how difficult it would be to create such a modded "SEAD fair" template?

Here it is! Let me introduce to you the ABSOLUTELY MOST FAIR map/template!
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You might have already guessed what it is...
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Still, no? Then scroll further...
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BAM!: https://www.warzone.com/Map/215-Duel


Obviously, when you eliminate all the "unfair", you come to smth like this.

Thanks, FiveSmith, great template!

You are welcome!

thx fizzer! Happy to hear you are willing to look into it - and hopefully change things for the better.

While 5S' analysis is excellent, i think it would need to go one step deeper - looking at specific territories for both players. Essentially this chart, https://i.imgur.com/EwR8i59.png - but on a territory basis, not just continents.

@ 5S - don't agree.

While there might possibly not be a large number of "100% balanced start combos" on a small map like SE, it would already be a lot more fair, if only territory combos with a value between e.g. 0.4 and 0.6 would be allowed. Cutting off the "very unfair" extremes.

if only territory combos with a value between e.g. 0.4 and 0.6 would be allowed.

BTW from the experience of other games that I know (Pokemon Unite, Warhammer 40k + some others), they estimate 0.4/0.6 chances to be "very unfair" and usually demand patches/changes.

no problem, i would also prefer a 49-51 range - provided that leaves enough combos. not sure what is possible

SEAD is very nice for a quick match. Just leave it the way it is and create a template besides it that's more fair and slightly different :)

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Wise dots Five! I wouldnt know that to do with this thread if it wasnt for your super helpful dots!

@vena - exactly. i would like to get "SEAD fair " and "SE1W fair" in addition to the existing templates. that way everybody can decide whether they feel more like going for a streak of luck with good starts or for a more skill based version with equally good (or bad) starts for both players.

Yes, that sounds good. You could also create them, it's your idea :)

Intel is a thing. Knowing when the enemy spawns, helps a lot. Adding a possible scenario to your collection of fair scenarios can make a scenario unfair. Vice versa, adding a scenario can make an unfair scenario fair.

Furthermore, knowledge of which template is possible and which is not will help you increase your win rate. This adds an artificial mechanic to your template.

Edited 3/24/2023 18:50:46

The simplest solution which could work is to ban some territories from being in distribution. And tell players which territories these are.

Edit: this looks like a reasonable compromise between removing bad spawns and keeping as many spawns as possible. What do you think?



Edited 3/24/2023 19:00:18

not that simple. every territory is possible - it really depends on the specific *combo* of 2+2 territories at game start.