+1 Joi

Fizzer should just test the 1 day boot time vs the 3 day. Was this even tested?

In my 200 player mega games (and my upcoming 400 mega game) 2 days isn't even enough time to read all the messages and coordinate with other players. 3 days is just enough time. I do pretty much play WZ at least 1 to 2 hours a day, but I hate feeling pressured to take a turn.

Literally from the about page:
“Warzone games can be played at your own pace. Your friends don't need to be all be online at the same time to play with them. Take your turns when it's convenient and Warzone will wait for you.”. Having boot time as 1 day isn’t convenient at all, especially for team games. If the underlying reason for such short boot time is for stalling, then the sever (or mod who is able to see through the fog, unless the mod is in the game because that’s a conflict of interest) should be able to identify if the game is deliberately being stalled out in such a way to manipulate rating. And not accidental like in lots of games and busy irl, so taking longer to take turns

Edited 5/7/2023 20:51:04

Even with a short boot time, games could be stalled out by playing until elimination.

There needs to be some sort of turn limit before a game gets flagged as possible stalling. Probably easiest to check once the game is over

How prevalent was stalling as a problem? Doesn't the new format make runs a thing of the past and therefore stalling a useless strategy? Why are we talking about stalling so much?

#666

To stop stalling we have to get rid of 3d and add 15d banked!
#StopStallersCheating
#666

that's correct stefano, mixing stalling in the boot timer discussion is completely wrong and makes no sense whatsoever...

stefano makes a very important point

@stefano36000

How prevalent was stalling as a problem?

▶ I also don't know how prevalent it is. I just encountered a few of them, got bored of ladder (because as long as people stall, I can't advance in the ladder and get my real rating).

However, it is definitely a viable option. As long as people finish games they're winning and stall the games they're losing, they'll inflate their ratings. In the meantime, they'll block the people they stall from advancing and ladder will be unplayable (or very slow to play).

---

Doesn't the new format make runs a thing of the past and therefore stalling a useless strategy?

▶ New format will stop the "Rival Crush" problem (players use an alt with relatively low Elo, wait to be matched with the rival player, lose all their other games [to minimize their alt's elo], and beat the rival to destroy their rating with just one win.

New format looks like it will mitigate the rating jump problem as well but stalling will keep being a problem as long as there is no stall detection system or players have long boot-time to stall

New format will stop the "Rival Crush" problem (players use an alt with relatively low Elo, wait to be matched with the rival player, lose all their other games [to minimize their alt's elo], and beat the rival to destroy their rating with just one win.

So it fixes a problem which has never been observed in the wild?

So it fixes a problem which has never been observed in the wild?

▶ I personally stopped ladder before going so high that somebody would considered me as a rival, but I heard that from a top player that its a common problem among top. Its at least not a common now (since ratings will be refreshed soon) and due to change, update will bring, it seems that problem will probably not gonna be relevant anymore

> I personally stopped ladder before going so high that somebody would considered me as a rival, but I heard that from a top player that its a common problem among top. Its at least not a common now (since ratings will be refreshed soon) and due to change, update will bring, it seems that problem will probably not gonna be relevant anymore


i feel so seen! VERAVARI - whoever you are - thank you! i would have all the ladder trophies by now and be the best player in the game if it wasn't for all my dastardly, dickish rivals. but every time i try to succeed at this game they thwart me at every turn - watch out *******, and ***** ******, and Master of Desaster i'll destroy you 1 day!

*edited to name 1 of my arch nemeses, feels too chicken to hide from all of them

Edited 5/8/2023 08:48:16

You're aware that your made up problem has basically been solved years ago, when multiaccounting on ladders has been forbidden?

+1 wz shouldnt be made into a chore, i.e. give people time for other things in life.
+1 3d day boot. why change it anyway?
+1 reinstating the real time ladder ;)

"I personally stopped ladder before"
So you're an alt acc. Was highly probable already anyway with how you acted and your profile.. but atleast you confirmed it now.
This account has no Ladder games recorded and i highly doubt you only hid your 1v1 ladder and left everything else public.

Edited 5/8/2023 11:05:33

I've commented on the other thread before (https://www.warzone.com/Forum/689079-fizzers-ladder-update-) but I'll leave my thoughts on the 1-day boot update here as well.

I understand that, from a developer's perspective, you want to incentivise people to be online every day, but I do not think this is the way. Clan Wars works great for that and I think having a shorter boot timer on QuickMatch is fine as well. But the ladders are the strategic aspect of the game. The only people who will join are people who are already more invested in the game. The main goal of the 1v1 ladder should be to have high-quality strategic gameplay, not to be as fast as you can.

I don't see a 1-day boot timer as an incentive but rather as something that forces me to play every day. This doesn't give me a good feeling, even with banked time there. As others have suggested, there might be a way to change the boot time on the 1v1 ladder in a better way. For the team ladders, I'd personally strongly suggest keeping the boot time to 3 days. Different time zones, one person being sick or having some form of appointment during the time that you are free can completely screw you over. Plus team games take a lot more time to discuss and decide on moves. This makes them fun, but with a 1-day boot, they'll mainly be stressful.

You said

today we have internet-connected phones and the game is much more accessible.

And while this is true, I do not feel like this is an adequate reason to change the boot times. Just because I have an opportunity to play Warzone, doesn't mean I feel like it or that I'm in the right headspace. If I would rather read a book in my free time I should have the opportunity to do so. One of the reasons I liked Warzone, and have been here for well over 11 years now, is that I never felt the pressure to be online every single day.

I think this change will put pressure on the 1v1 ladder, but people will adapt there.
For the team ladders, however, I feel like this would be close to a killing blow. Which would be a shame. Warzone is already relatively short of competitive team events and I don't want the team ladders to lose their strategic value. Even with the 3 day boot time, I've had plenty of times where it was close to whether or not my team and I would be able to make moves in time. Despite everybody trying and doing their best to be there.

IMO it's weird to say "I take this game seriously so I take all my turns within 10 minutes and will play every day", because, to me, taking the game seriously means that you will take your time thinking about your picks or moves. You might want to think multiple turns ahead or think about what your opponent will do and how you will react. Going over the options you have might take some time.
I'm not the best 1v1 player on the site, but I'll play to a level where I often meet those who are among the very top. The smallest mistake might cost you the game or change your chances.
I want to take it seriously and I think strategic gameplay should represent one's skill. To me, this is minimised when you have 1 day to do your picks or moves. If someone has had a busy day at work, some plans during the weekend or just is sick or something and they're still forced to take a turn they're more likely to make mistakes due to external factors. 2 days with banked or 3 days flat boot is a nice middle road between the game moving forward at a good pace and people getting to choose the optimal time for them to make their moves.

Team games are intense and take time. At a high level, it's uncommon to have a voice chat that's less than 30 minutes long for moves and voice chats for picks will go on longer than that. It's unreasonable to expect two people from different timezones to find compatible times to be online for at least 30 minutes with both being in a good space to do so every single day. In a lot of the more serious team games I've played, we tended to make picks on one day and then review them again at a later time. It's nice to have time to think and mull things over. I think that tends to improve strategic gameplay and lets people play to their best abilities.

Clan League is atm the biggest competition at the highest level. The MTL is also a big competition that's focused on 1v1. Both of these competitions are created and maintained by the strategic community. The mtl uses a 3-day boot and CL uses 3 days with loads of banked time.
The strategic community has had the time to figure out what works best for people in competitions and it's far from a 1-day boot. Clan League went through a change to alter the boot times to something better for the community.
Attempts to make community events based on shorter boot times have always fallen flat. It's not that other ideas haven't been suggested or attempted, it's that they didn't work out. I do not see how this would be different for the ladders. It seems a 1 day boot will just massively reduce the actual quality of the gameplay and make the ladders basically worthless as an assessment of skill.

+1 Min

@Roi Joleil

So you're an alt acc

▶ This is my main account now. I had a different main account but its been so long that I couldn't even remember my username (my last recorded interaction was from February 2014, through a mail sent to the leader of Vitrix Mortalis). So I had to create a new account (this one) and using it as my main ever since.

Just saw the new proposed update of an additional 1 day banked time on top of current proposals. This still falls far short of what is needed on team ladders.

The challenge to reach the top on a ladder should be about the quality of gameplay not quantity of gameplay. There will be a significant decrease in quality on the ladders as a response to this :(

I plead with Fizzer to not do this to the ladders :'(

yeah, the solution is not more banked time. it is more guaranteed boot time, and if there is banked time, it should be recovered each day by a certain amount at the very least, if Fizzer really wants to go this way. I'd still prefer the standard 3 day boot though because I don't see anything wrong with it, and it seems most people don't either.