I don’t really care if 1v1s get shifted to 1 day boot because I kind of agree you can take your turn within a day and some change and not be overwhelmed. If you are getting overwhelmed you can reduce game count etc.

However, team games with 1 day boot and some change aren’t really feasible if I have to coordinate with someone in a totally different time zone as myself. I love playing with people around the world, but coordinating with them within 3 days is already a hard task that requires a lot of dedication, and I don’t see how this promotes team play at all. I think that the only people who will be willing to play team games will be people who expressly play by themselves by using 2 alts, or non-competitive teams that don’t intend to play it with coordination to begin with.

I don’t really care if 1v1s get shifted to 1 day boot because I kind of agree you can take your turn within a day and some change and not be overwhelmed. If you are getting overwhelmed you can reduce game count etc.

Sure. But I also think that the reduction in games is something not everyone would be willing to do for the sake of playing in the ladder, whereas it'd basically become a requirement in order to be able to play it (or else having a lot of free time, and wanting to dedicate it to WZ). I'm sure some people wouldn't mind a reduction in time at all, but also, I think it's less hurtful for the quick players to wait a bit more than they'd want for the sake of slow players than the other way around. 3d offers more flexibility, and ensures that more players would actually be able to 1) not get booted 2) make the best moves they are able to do and not settle for whatever without really thinking it through because there's not enough time and/or energy that day.

I speak for myself, because, while I could, of course, simply reduce my game count, I don't care about the ladder enough to do that, and would just leave it if the boot reduction happened in its current form. Besides, I'd take 15 games with 3 day boot over 5 with 1 day boot any day. Even just having 1 or 2 right now feels stressful and unfun.

I feel like partially Fizzer also looked at other E-Sport games and figured
"yea.. they can play there everyday aswell so how hard can it be to play 1 turn here"
Not taking into account that those people get money... and last i checked i dont get money playing this game.

Bro, 90% of the playerbase of those games don't get paid money, neither is the workload of playing this game the same as playing non-stop for 6-7 hrs like the top 10% of the playerbase in those games do. Weird parallel to draw. I generally agree that boot times should be shorter. People complained of the vacation/boot rules changing in Clan League and despite the changes we've seen literally the same amount of boots as prior seasons. 1v1 games can absolutely be played in a daily basis, and in fact mostly already are.

I just scanned through the top 10 ladder players and couldn't find a game that had players actually waiting out the full 3 days. Most are taking their turns within a day.

"Bro, 90% of the playerbase of those games don't get paid money"

We are talking about Pro Players.
and 10% of the playerbase aint pro players. it would be closer to 01% and in Rocket League f.e. 00.01%

"neither is the workload of playing this game the same as playing non-stop for 6-7 hrs like the top 10% of the playerbase in those games do."

who would have figured that people whos job their is to play a game play more than people who have to go to school / college / job ect.

"People complained of the vacation/boot rules changing in Clan League and despite the changes we've seen literally the same amount of boots as prior seasons."
Cant comment, dont play CL nor do i know what it was about exactly.

"I just scanned through the top 10 ladder players and couldn't find a game that had players actually waiting out the full 3 days. Most are taking their turns within a day. "

Im not gonna check each game of the top 10.. tho considering Timi is part of that top 10 id alr. question it.
Aside from that, great. People who have the time and ability will play 1d. Fantastic. You know whats also fantastic. They play 1d even tho its 3days. That literally shows that 3d wont make games slower just because people can stall longer as such wtf is the problem in keeping it?
But now you have players who might need or want to use 2 or 3days for their turns, maybe its an important game or a strong opponent.
But hmm... based of my analysis using 2 / 3 days in a 1d boot setting doesnt... fit. huh.

Like..
People who play 0d / 1d / 2d / 3d can all join and play a 3d ladder...
However only people who play 0d / 1d can play a 1d ladder...

You are literally just cutting your own players who are either able to or willing to participate.

Edited 5/9/2023 20:21:04

Yeah but using your own argument if the 3d boot isn't gatekeeping anyone if they aren't being gatekept by it in the first place.. There's a drastic difference between 1v1 and teams though. I think you're freaking out a little too hard about the 1v1 ladder. I'm confident that we'll see generally the same amount of people playing 1v1 ladder before and after the update.

2v2/3v3 I definitely see a case there, because you may not be coordinating with someone in your same timezone and not necessarily playing against someone in the same timezone, so this means you have to change when you coordinate every turn dependent on when the next turn is available, which may not work for 24hr+. Banked time doesn't really alleviate this, in general you'd need at least 2 days base and some banked time. 1 day base for team games worries me, no matter how long the banked is, because I know that a lot of the turns will HAVE to be beyond 1 day, and so what happens if I get into a 20 turn slugfest because we're equal income and fighting in middle in Europe? The same can happen in 2v2 as well, even though FE as a template doesn't encourage slugfest scenarios from happening.

I just scanned through the top 10 ladder players and couldn't find a game that had players actually waiting out the full 3 days. Most are taking their turns within a day.

Why are we focused on the top 10 ladder players? We're not just trying to optimize play for the top 10 players but for everyone.

Tbh I wouldn't mind seeing a "timing" setting on ladders similar to the "# of games to play simultaneously" setting, where players can lower their boot time preference, and if 2 matched players lower it to a lower value, the game time changes. Heck, even allow people raise it beyond 3 if they like to a max of 5. It still takes agreement to change the duration.

Eg:
- if no players change the time, duration is 3 days
- if both players set the time to same value X, duration becomes X
- if player 1 sets it to 2 days, and player 2 leaves it at 3 days, duration remains at 3
- if player 1 sets it to 1 day and player 2 sets it 2 days, duration is 2 (they both agree on <3, but player 2 isn't willing to go to 1, but clearly player 1 is okay with 2)
- if player 1 sets it to 5 days and player 2 sets it to 4 days, duration is 4 (same logic as above)

And make people set this value when they join the ladder

Another possibility could be to have 1 day boot time + 3 days banked time, but starts at 0 at start of game, and your banked time accumulates from the time you have left on your main clock each move up to max of 1 day/move. So if you keep playing at slowest speed (max available time), it will soon become a daily 1 day move to avoid boot. But if you play quicker, you can bank unused time into banked time to have available when something comes up IRL or you want more time to think, etc. The idea isn't to take 3 moves for every move, just to have time available for when you need to.

Edited 5/10/2023 18:16:08

Can I also just say that I hate that 3 games at a time is now the minimum amount (at least on the 1v1 ladder, didn't check the others)? That only exacerbates the boot time problem.

Why are we focused on the top 10 ladder players? We're not just trying to optimize play for the top 10 players but for everyone.

Because that was the first 10 players I looked at to make a 5 minute assessment on how fast they were playing, if you care so much about the entire population then feel free to dig deeper, but it told me right off the bat that people aren't going to struggle with new boot settings.

As for reducing game count to accommodate shorter boot times, that is a forced workaround; people have high(er) game counts b/c they want to have games to play when they come back to WZ. Maybe they login in daily, maybe they log in once every 2 to 2.5 days. Lowering game counts means folks that play less than 1/day now have to play 1/day to accommodate ladders - this is the issue that's being called out here, people have to change the way they play the game - this is bad

Think of CW, some people don't play it b/c they just don't want to be tied to a daily schedule and fit into a slot, ie: they don't want to change how/when they play; while not as extreme, it makes ladders more like that

Also as waffle indicated, now minimum 3 games at once

I consider myself a hardcore warlight player and it became even for me tedious after just a bit over one day. lowest number of games is 3 and they keep on coming with no end and due to the low boot times they end up quickly as well... it's just too much.

told me right off the bat that people aren't going to struggle with new boot settings.

Anecdotal evidence. Those 10 might be fine with it. However, they can also just be managing to do so right now, and might not be fine if it was something they had to deal with every day. Even if they are, though, that certainly doesn't "tell" you that people aren't going to struggle with the new boot settings. Those 10 are a fraction of the total ladder population, and a few dozen people have already expressed that they are struggling with new boot settings in the forums. Your conclusion isn't sound.

If it's easy to disprove then feel free to go check the ladder and disprove it then.

Just because people can take their turn in 1 day does not mean they are not struggling with it. I don't get booted in multi-day games at all (so far, but have tended not to do it on my previous account either), and if I was in a game with 1 day boot, I'd take my turn in it. It's just that I would not be happy about having to do it. I assume at least some other people would be the same way. It becomes a thing you have to do, but don't want to. Sure, I often take my turns within a day, but doesn't mean I want the constant pressure of having to do it.

+1 waffle.

I joined the 1vs1 ladder for a day snd left again cause it pressured me into playing quicker and more so much. It also stresses me that one teammate didn't enter moves at all while the other should adjust moves just after 14 hours.

I notice now my boot time is going rapedly down from 3 days to 1 day with these settings, I don't have the time to play 5-20 games for ladders within 1 day additional to the other games, Fizzer help us out here, otherwise I'm forced to leave the ladder.
I propose: extra time (standard boot time 2 days or more, or add a build up hours if we're stuck to <2 day boot time)

2d guaranteed boot time is the bare minimum in my opinion. Also bring back the option to play 2 games at once rather than set the minimum to 3.