Yes... Honestly, even though I'm a conservative, in cases of rape (especially when the victim is 13-17, i.e., under aged) abortion should be allowed.

The nation itself is 50% Christian, so christian values and morals are forced into legislation despite separation of church and state

Wrong.

The constitution never mentions "seperation of church and state".

It says "freedom of religion".

Legally, the government could decide to give each christian church 10,000$ a year of fudning tomorrow, and charge every mosque 25000$ to pay for it, and it would be legal.



Also, Chrtistian values ARE NOT FORCED INTO LEGISLATION. You would have to be retarded and know nothing about current politic policies to think that.

Also, 50% of americans are not christian.

If you count only those who actually follow the New Testament as Christians (not gonna go to the OT), then the number just dropped to probably about 5% (optimistically).

In theory, abortion should only happen in cases of rape, when continuing the pregnancy is life-threatening to the mother, or if the fetus has a severe health problem that will result in no quality of life for the child. In reality, restricting it to those cases by law would lead to women lying about being raped in order to get an abortion. If you require proof of rape, you might as well not allow abortion, because those things frequently take too long to prove and a lot of rape cases can't be proven anyway.


Teaching the Biblical creation story is appropriate in a Social Studies class as part of a section on religion. It would be completely inappropriate to teach in a Science class, even if the school is 90% Christian (a high percentage of Christians are evolutionists anyway, so it's entirely possible that a majority of students believe in God-guided evolution, and traditional creationism doesn't align with their views).

Edited 5/3/2015 19:41:36

I don't honestly see what's wrong with abortion. Get it as many times you want, have fun.

You have a weird definition of fun if abortions are fun to you

If you like abortion in your country, why don't you legalize it until, let's say, 7th year of embryo's life?

Actually, Romans were fine with abortions until the baby had their first tooth.

Martian's reasons for despising abortion:

1) If a fetus has human DNA, how can one not say that it is human life?
2) A pregnant mother is hit by a car and dies along with the baby. The driver is charged with double manslaughter. A pregnant mother goes to get an abortion, and a doctor is paid for killing the unborn child. This means that what determines if an unborn child is human or not is if the mother wants it. This is outright disgusting.
3) Some say it's okay before a certain point because the child can't feel pain yet. Professor Hawking can't feel anything from the neck down. Does that mean his mother can unload 30 rounds into his chest? No.
4) "Pro Choicers" say that it is the woman's body. I don't recall a normal, living human that has two distinctive sets of DNA.

)1: A rock can have some human DNA, how can one say that it is not human life? But more seriously, for example, a severed hand has DNA, but it's not human life.
2) I wouldn't consider the driver double manslaughter.
3)Does't matter if they feel pain or not - the pain will be minimal, especially considering how few nerves they have.
4)Happens all the time, now that I think about it.

And what if the baby is born, and is an unwanted "accident"?
What if he is born into a gangster family, gets very poor medical treatment and dies painfully in a gangster fight?
What if the baby is born in a clearly abusive family and grows up to be a serial killer or the next Hitler?

)1: A rock can have some human DNA

Rocks aren't biological, they don't have DNA period.

3)Does't matter if they feel pain or not - the pain will be minimal,

So it's okay to track down someone you don't like and shoot them? (The pain will be minimal!) That statement you just made can be used to justify so many horrible things it's unbelievable.

What if he is born into a gangster family, gets very poor medical treatment and dies painfully in a gangster fight?
What if the baby is born in a clearly abusive family and grows up to be a serial killer or the next Hitler?

"I'm sorry honey, our baby might grow up to be the next Hitler, it's a very small chance, but it's possible. We must kill the baby immediately to be sure it doesn't happen, better kill the neighbor's children while we're at it. Anyone could be the next Hitler!"

When discussing the topic of ending human life, you need something more solid than flimsy "What ifs". It works against your case just as easily, What if the child grows up to cure cancer? What if the child grows up and stops a war?

Benefit of the doubt should go in favor of preserving life, not ending it.

I love literally no once comments about Tyrion's dumbass comment.

The constitution never mentions "seperation of church and state".

Hahahahahaha, youre fucking kidding me. It's been used many many MANY times by Jefferson himself, and the supreme court as a way of explaining some of the clauses of the first amendment. You learned that shit in 5th grade, did you forget it already?

you need something more solid than flimsy "What ifs".

Hilarious coming from someone who brings up what ifs on the topic of lgbt. "B-But what if we legalize bestiality and necrophilia next?!?!?!"

Teaching the Biblical creation story is appropriate in a Social Studies class as part of a section on religion.

And it is taught, in World history classes, along with Islam and Judaism and other religions. I did think it was funny how my high school decided not to teach kids about Christianity, and instead skipped over it because pretty much everyone knows it already. All they went over was the crusades

Benefit of the doubt should go in favor of preserving life, not ending it.

Oh well maybe they wont grow up with aids, or severe disabilities and suffer through life.

We've gotten used to Tyrion being a dumbass

Rocks aren't biological, they don't have DNA period.

They can, dead human skin cells can land on them.

3)Does't matter if they feel pain or not - the pain will be minimal,

They used to do surgery without anaesthesia on babies until the 1980s in Britain - though I'm not for this, it wouldn't be as painful as it would be if you were a grownup going the same surgery. The point I'm trying to make is feeling pain is just some heart-grabber for some folk, but it's not. I'm not saying that because they don't feel pain, it's perfectly all right to abort, other reasons to do that.

"I'm sorry honey, our baby might grow up to be the next Hitler, it's a very small chance, but it's possible. We must kill the baby immediately to be sure it doesn't happen, better kill the neighbor's children while we're at it. Anyone could be the next Hitler!"

You make a ridiculous example, but there are some folk I knew some who have undergone abortions because they knew that their life quality for their other children and household would go down too much. And if you grow up in the gangster town part, you're not going to get a good education, probably bad diet, bad health and you'll grow up to be a nogood or a hobo or some good but struggling. And their parents don't even want to deal with them, so neglect and abuse will probably be common if you refuse the abortion to them, which can lead to them going psychotic.

What's the preserving life benefit if the life is just going to be in pain, in distress and very likely a nogood? You'll notice that poor folk and regular criminals don't just pop-up from a middleclass family, the poor folk and regular criminals (90%) come from families that are poor folk and regular criminals. Ban-ki Moon came from a poor background, and I'm not saying that it's impossible for folk to escape their backgrounds, but it's hard, and statistically much rarer than them staying true to their backgrounds.

I love literally no once comments about Tyrion's dumbass comment.
The constitution never mentions "seperation of church and state".
Hahahahahaha, youre fucking kidding me. It's been used many many MANY times by Jefferson himself, and the supreme court as a way of explaining some of the clauses of the first amendment. You learned that shit in 5th grade, did you forget it already?

Maybe he was talking about the Arabian constitution?

They can, dead human skin cells can land on them.

I still fail to see how this relates to anything. The rock itself does not have DNA nor can it utilize DNA, thus whatever point you're trying to make with this is null.

You make a ridiculous example

Make ridiculous statement, get ridiculous response. You were the one who first said, "What if they become the next Hitler?!" I based my response to show how crazy it is to use that kind of logic.


but there are some folk I knew some who have undergone abortions because they knew that their life quality for their other children and household would go down too much. And if you grow up in the gangster town part, you're not going to get a good education, probably bad diet, bad health and you'll grow up to be a nogood or a hobo or some good but struggling. And their parents don't even want to deal with them, so neglect and abuse will probably be common if you refuse the abortion to them, which can lead to them going psychotic.

What's the preserving life benefit if the life is just going to be in pain, in distress and very likely a nogood? You'll notice that poor folk and regular criminals don't just pop-up from a middleclass family, the poor folk and regular criminals (90%) come from families that are poor folk and regular criminals. Ban-ki Moon came from a poor background, and I'm not saying that it's impossible for folk to escape their backgrounds, but it's hard, and statistically much rarer than them staying true to their backgrounds.

I don't know where to start with this. They MIGHT have a bad life, and your best solution is "Just kill them"? This line of thinking could be extended to justify killing off the children of low class families, because "Oh well there's no hope for them better kill them all now." You think we should do a mass genocide in Africa because the situation there for many families seems hopeless? How about change the situation to make things less hopeless instead of killing people. Same goes for abortion, don't kill the child because their situation might look bad, work to change the situation instead.

There's plenty of examples of people who've come from bad backgrounds and have risen up to do great things in life. You can't predict the future, so murdering people to try and prevent bad things is absolute madness. I'd even wager that a hard life is better than no life at all, but again, you can't even state with certainty that any person might have a bad life. Everyone deserves a chance, killing them outright because you're afraid they might suffer is wrong on so many levels.

I still fail to see how this relates to anything. The rock itself does not have DNA nor can it utilize DNA, thus whatever point you're trying to make with this is null.

My point is (directed at Martian) that just because something has human DNA dœs not mean that it is human life.

They MIGHT have a bad life, and your best solution is "Just kill them"?

It's not killing anybody since they're not really living yet, and it's more than just a "might".

This line of thinking could be extended to justify killing off the children of low class families, because "Oh well there's no hope for them better kill them all now."

Pretty much happens by itself, except they actually do feel pain. And it's not just low class families - "ex" convicts, known gang areas, families that might be rich but know that it would be best to the family's living standard if they didn't have a (nother) child.

You think we should do a mass genocide in Africa because the situation there for many families seems hopeless?

Again, already happens by itself.

How about change the situation to make things less hopeless instead of killing people.

I might change my mind if you do.

There's plenty of examples of people who've come from bad backgrounds and have risen up to do great things in life.

Like Adolf Hitler? These folk who do great things are a small minority.

You can't predict the future

We can, by statistics, roughly predict the future. Weathermen do it all the time.

so murdering people to try and prevent bad things is absolute madness.

It's not murder - they have no brain, their version of life is basically seeing some light flashes halfway through pregnancy, and having literally almost no cognition to determine what these light flashes are. By your definition, killing earthworms is murder.

Everyone deserves a chance, killing them outright because you're afraid they might suffer is wrong on so many levels.

No, they don't. If everyone got a chance to go to the shooting range (including psychotics that may or may not shoot everyone up), we'd be dead. They suffer, we suffer, noone's happy. It's more than just a might - it's more likely than not.

A life form that has a full set of human DNA is human life. What is up for debate in society is at what point in development is human life significant.

Again, by your reasoning, rocks are human life forms.

...No. A rock is not a life form of any kind.

Edited 5/4/2015 03:31:00

If they have human skin cells in them they are.

Rocks cannot replicate human DNA