Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Absolutely nobody can criticize Homosexuals for committing homosexual acts, since before you do you will have to examine your own sins, particularly sexual sins. The majority of people have committed fornication, adultery, or both, which are no different in God's eyes than homosexual acts. In the case that neither have been committed, There is absolutely zero percent chance that you are sinless. This whole holier-than-thou attitude that most american christians have towards non-believers is very disturbing to me.

Sorry if I came across as "holier-than-thou". However, there are two things you must realise. The first, is that I am not American, and the second is that I am not Christian. In fact, I have never been to America, and I was never a Christian.

I am not trying to prove how religious I am, I am merely trying to understand another person's mental state when they say things which go against humanity as a whole. I sincerely believe that those who think that homosexuality is even minutely okay have been brainwashed. Roma children are brought up in their culture believing that it is good to steal from "rich" people. In ancient Greek times, Sparta children were brought up with the idea that lying to get out of trouble was of noble character. The fact that the people believed those things were good, doesn't prevent them from sinning due to it. After all, Sodom and Gomorrah thought nothing was wrong with homosexuality, and God didn't forgive them.

I am with you on the point that nobody is sinless. Satan draws the noblest of us into sin when we are off-guard. However, we must face the consequences in the afterlife if we do not repent and we are not regretful. When God is judging us, it will be too late. It is impossible to repent for a sin, when you do not believe that it is wrong in the first place.
Some people believe that we should just leave them to their fate. I find this attitude most disturbing. Is it not human nature to want to save as many humans as possible from the wrath of God. We know that God dislikes sin, and he becomes angry due to it, so if we prevent a sin, we are actually pleasing Him.

My point is, Homosexuals are exactly the same in God's eyes as other non-believers; They are sinners who have not confessed that they are sinners and asked for forgiveness.

Which brings my second point; Homosexual acts are absolutely NOT okay.

Jesus also said "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven". It is very important for Christian Priests(in the version of christianity that I practice, everyone) to teach the law of God and not Attempt to abolish it.

To summarize, It is NOT OKAY to teach that Sexual sins(Fornication, Paraphilias, Homosexual Acts, Adultery, Incest) are Okay, and it is NOT OKAY to be mean to anyone based on their sins.

I understand your point, but let me just bring in here what our good friend Martian said:

Jesus also said to follow the law of your king. If having a relationship with a child is illegal, then that person will be punished by the king's (person in charge) government. If it is illegal to have homosexual relationships, then one should not partake in them; but if they are legal, then one is lawfully allowed to partake in them. But God is the first, most important, and final judge. The only thing one should always do, no matter what law exists, is to believe in God, and not deny his existence.

right and wrong, and good and bad, are ultimately decided by God (assuming God is real), but human morals all derive from our feelings of guilt, which vary between all of us, which is why laws need to be established in the first place.

It is not okay to commit sins such as homosexuality, we agree on that.
However, in the lands of the West, which describe themselves as "Christian countries" (well, in my case they do, anyway), homosexuality is given the blind eye. Obviously in this case, we cannot physically stop homosexuality from taking place, as nobody is above the law. However, it is possible to advise people that we meet to refrain from taking part in such sins on religious grounds without taking physical action against them. If I see a homosexual walking down the street, I don't think any reasonable person would suggest that, even though our love for God might draw us to make such mistakes, we should harm that person. Violence will probably make that person less susceptible to changing his/her ways.

Being kind and nice to a person. Telling them that God doesn't like what they are doing, and being nice to them, even if they react in a horrible way back, does a million more than bashing their head-in.

Moving on to my last note, human morals are not ascertained by feelings of guilt. As I mentioned before, there were and are people who genuinely believ(ed) that lying and stealing are good traits.

You know what,screw you assholes, you are all posting shit posts!

there were and are people who genuinely believ(ed) that lying and stealing are good traits.

Which means they have no guilt when they lie or steal.

Sorry, I'll stop being a smart*ss now.

Edited 5/20/2015 11:37:06

It is because of the warlight makes us hippie !!: O
This is because before you know you are more afraid of them, and after that you know you'll be more tolerant, probably.
And in your case I guess you did not see who really Gay,,,, (It still does not make them not to disturbing ...

Edited 5/20/2015 11:37:23

Sorry if I came across as "holier-than-thou". However, there are two things you must realise. The first, is that I am not American, and the second is that I am not Christian. In fact, I have never been to America, and I was never a Christian.

I wasn't actually referring to you or anyone else in particular when I made that comment; I was referring to, as I said, Most american christians. I'm actually really sorry If It came across that way. I was actually under the impression that you were a Muslim?

The point I intended to make but didn't really was that It's actually pretty pointless to attempt to stop unconverted individuals from sinning, sine they will still be punished in the afterlife for being unconverted. In addition to this, like you said: These things, to them, are not even morally wrong things to do, since they do not follow the same moral code as theists do.

Edited 5/21/2015 00:02:08

You people amaze me. How can someone be a sinner if they do not believe in that religion? If I eat bacon but am not Muslim, does that make me a violator of Islam? If I eat meat on a Friday during lent, but I am not Christian, does that make me a sinner? What about if I have sex before getting married?

You can have the belief that something is immoral, but that does not make someone a sinner when they do not practice that religion.

True Christianity is following what is layed out in the New Testament and nothing more or less. Denominations form because people do not do all that God has said to do or do more.

People have this unfortunate attitude that nobody is supposed to judge anyone for any sin. The Bible does not even say this. They often refer to Matthew 7 when Jesus says "Judge not that you be not judged," however they are taking it out of context. If you read the whole paragraph that the statement is in, Jesus is talking about hypocritical judging. That is when people go around pointing out faults in others when they themselves have much greater problems. The New Testament teaches in 2 Timothy 4:2 "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching." True Christians need to correct sinful behavior but not judgingly or hypocritically. Homosexuality is a sin just the same as any other sin and people need to be brought to repentance.

Also God is the creator of all things and the ultimate judge. If something is a sin it is a sin whether or not a person follows Christ or believes in God.

Chris was right on the money. Expanding upon that, admitting your sins is the first step to resolving your sin. It's actually a very good life moral. You should admit wrongdoings. As far as homosexuality goes, it's just your personal perception of God's word.

Expanding on "sex before marriage", i think that you could translate a modern times equivalent from boyfriend and girlfriend. After all, marriage has a very different meaning these days.

You people amaze me. How can someone be a sinner if they do not believe in that religion? If I eat bacon but am not Muslim, does that make me a violator of Islam? If I eat meat on a Friday during lent, but I am not Christian, does that make me a sinner? What about if I have sex before getting married?

You can have the belief that something is immoral, but that does not make someone a sinner when they do not practice that religion.

Once you start thinking about this logic, It falls apart very quickly, especially if you try to apply it to real-life scenarios.

The logic is as follows:

If someone doesn't believe that it is morally wrong to break a command given to them by a higher authority, Then when they break the command they have not broken the command and are not a command-breaker.

Here is it applied to some examples:

If Someone who lives in the US doesn't believe that it is morally wrong to murder, then when they murder they have not committed a crime and are not a criminal.

If a father tells his son not to steal some candy, and the son doesn't believe that it is morally wrong to steal candy, then when he does steal candy he is not a thief and he has not committed theft.

If God tells you not to have sex with your mom, and you believe that it is not morally wrong to have sex with your mom, then when you have sex with your mom you have not committed sin and are not a sinner.

Saying that you do not believe that a higher power(The US Government, Your Dad, God) exists does not exempt you from the law.

If that higher power is the government, you will still be guilty of a crime, and you will still be a convicted criminal after you are caught, whether or not you believe that the government exists.

If that higher power is your dad, you'll Probably still get grounded whether or not you believe that your dad exists.

If that Higher power is God, you are still a sinner and will receive due punishment for your sins in the afterlife.

Edited 5/20/2015 22:32:37

Even for those who believe gay marriage is acceptable to God, most would still consider Sodom to have been sexually immoral due to rampant promiscuity and attempted homosexual gang rape. It would be incorrect to conclude that those cities were destroyed because of monogamous, loving, devoted, homosexual relationships.

My friends and relatives who are gay are really great people. I can't imagine a loving and fair God sending them to eternal hell for being part of a devoted gay relationship.

The problem is that Homosexuality is incompatible with Christianity, so most Homosexuals have to be atheists. Since they are unconverted individuals, they go to Hell.

It's not even the sin of committing sexual immorality that is bad. Everyone is a sinner. What is incompatible is the belief that Sexual immoralities are Okay.

I mean come on, why would you want to spend eternity with someone who won't even acknowledge that you exist?

Edited 5/20/2015 22:43:31

Here's a relevant excerpt from a conversation with Colonel:

If you say so. I don't really believe anything I write. I am Muslim, and I am anti-Zionist but I don't hate Jews or judge people based on their sexuality in real life. I'm fairly moderate. It was a challenge to beat Lawlz for the title of "Most Controversial Thread Ever on WarLight".

This one actually admits to trolling, and you all have fallen for it. gg





Screenshot proof, though it doesn't really matter:

Link to private mail thread, though only two people can read it: https://www.warlight.net/Discussion/?ID=83169

Edited 5/20/2015 22:49:56

Here is it applied to some examples:

If Someone who lives in the US doesn't believe that it is morally wrong to murder, then when they murder they have not committed a crime and are not a criminal.

If a father tells his son not to steal some candy, and the son doesn't believe that it is morally wrong to steal candy, then when he does steal candy he is not a thief and he has not committed theft."

If God tells you not to have sex with your mom, and you believe that it is not morally wrong to have sex with your mom, then when you have sex with your mom you have not committed sin and are not a sinner.

Saying that you do not believe that a higher power(The US Government, Your Dad, God) exists does not exempt you from the law.

If that higher power is the government, you will still be guilty of a crime, and you will still be a convicted criminal after you are caught, whether or not you believe that the government exists.

If that higher power is your dad, you'll Probably still get grounded whether or not you believe that your dad exists.

If that Higher power is God, you are still a sinner and will receive due punishment for your sins in the afterlife.

Again, you did not read my point. You cannot equate God (you choose to follow) to Government (you must follow if you live in their territory). I never said people can choose what laws to obey. I simply said you cannot hold another person to a chosen higher authority if they did not choose that higher authority themselves.

Also God is the creator of all things and the ultimate judge. If something is a sin it is a sin whether or not a person follows Christ or believes in God.

That is pretty dumb. So every human must abide by the laws of ALL gods that someone believe in or they are a 'sinner'? Guaranteed EVERY person on earth is a 'sinner' in the eyes of at least one religion.

The problem is that Homosexuality is incompatible with Christianity, so most Homosexuals have to be atheists. Since they are unconverted individuals, they go to Hell.

Exactly my point. There are probably homosexual Christians that exist but hope for change (can't assume there are not). But, I would bet %99 of homosexual people are not Christian. Why would you follow a church that says you are not equal?

So if you do not belong to that faith, you cannot be a sinner in that faith either. You can only judge a person IF they were in your faith. Not as if they ARE in the faith.

Again, you did not read my point. You cannot equate God (you choose to follow) to Government (you must follow if you live in their territory). I never said people can choose what laws to obey. I simply said you cannot hold another person to a chosen higher authority if they did not choose that higher authority themselves.

My point isn't that laws have to be obeyed, but that if you don't obey them than you are a violator of them.

The reason I made this point is because you made it a point to say that People who sin but are not Christians are Not sinners.

Ultimately, Following God's laws are exactly the same as following laws laid forth by governments. You do have the choice to follow them, and If you don't follow them, there are consequences.

Edited 5/20/2015 23:44:30

My friends and relatives who are gay are really great people. I can't imagine a loving and fair God sending them to eternal hell for being part of a devoted gay relationship.

I have no doubt that there are many homosexuals that are nice people. Most people are fairly good people but everyone sins and have a particular sin they struggle with. God does not accept homosexuality in any form. It is unnatural and unsafe. "Devoted" gay relationships are almost nonexistent. A couple gay researches once studied 500 homosexuals and their relationships; not a single one remained faithful.

1 Corinthians 6:9 says "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." This is the plain and simple truth. This does not mean God is unloving or unfair because see what the next verse says: "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

Every sin is deserving of death, that is stated not only in the beginning of the Bible but also in Romans. However God sent Christ Jesus because He loves us and does not want people to suffer the punishment, so Jesus took the punishment Himself though he was innocent. However to be saved you must be obedient. Peter told the Jews in Acts 2:38 that you must "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins."

Condoning homosexuality is doing the opposite of that. It is encouraging people to remain in sin.

The point Imperator brought is an excellent argument, because it refutes "Islamic" extremists.

If an American is in Britain, and he commits homicide, nobody would agree that the Brits should use capital punishment in Britain simply because the murderer is American. The same goes for anyone, of any race, religion or sect.

I'm not reading giant paragraphs of text, but

I had no interaction with someone who was not heterosexual.

This is highly unlikely to be true. You have had no real-life interaction with openly gay people, because there is a serious social stigma attached to it in your social circles. However, you can be sure that you know actively gay people in real life; they just won't tell you about it.