American jingoists everywhere! Kill this thread!!

Americans, being the majority on this website (and partially of cultural grounds) glorify their government and politicians loads.

Eh that's a generalization lad. Give me some stats or examples :P

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/warlight.net

As for culture, didn't find any too good polls, but here is something https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/07/14/decline-british-patriotism/

Few if any Americans on this site actually glorify their government or its leaders. Many of us defend our country as a general concept, which somehow gets exaggerated into "Nationalism" (Seriously, many people on this site seem to think that even the most minor defense of one's country is Nationalistic).

Defending your country and defending its government is two different matters.

Edited 2/7/2016 03:42:15

There's plenty of "liberals" who love Obama and wil defend his things to the death while being totally blind to his short comings. And then they'll call me a ignorant, flag-waving retardican.

As for culture, didn't find any too good polls, but here is something https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/07/14/decline-british-patriotism/

Maybe you didn't find any good polls because its not true. After decades of being told by the world and the media that the US is a big evil bully and that we should still be whipping ourselves over our history of slavery, not even a majority of Americans are "patriotic" by your own linked poll.

Americans, being the majority on this website (and partially of cultural grounds) glorify their government and politicians loads.

Again you'll be hard pressed to find Americans on WL, "glorifying their government and politicians". This generalization doesn't work. Sorry. Try again next time.

Edited 2/7/2016 03:55:47

No, I didn't find any good polls at all, saying they are or aren't relatively patriotic. And don't make me laugh, Americans actually listen to foreigners and the American media says America is a "big evil bully"? It was a majority, actually, and that was just the online population, which discounts 1/9 folk in America (who probably have even less access to foreigners and media). A better poll, just on America: http://www.gallup.com/poll/183911/smaller-majority-extremely-proud-american.aspx. 54% are extremely patriotic.

Again you'll be hard pressed to find Americans on WL, "glorifying their government and politicians". This generalization doesn't work. Sorry. Try again next time.

You, GeneralPE, Varys, Conservative, Castle Bravo, and even MGSB before he came on Warlight all think of America as this country who tries to free folk, deal justice, be the world police, spread democracy, all the things. You may find criticisms, but you'll say that was just a "mistake" and that America tried to do the right thing. So much for being hard-pressed.

http://www.turningpointusa.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/10-Ways-America-is-the-Greatest-Country.pdf

The Conservative probably agrees with this 100%.

Sorry but America just has shitty pull out game.

Joke aside

We should help them with IS and other rebellion. We should also help them build army and militia.

I am not even going to watch that video but I am assuming its some far right extreme view of America to which you are tying me to because you think it makes your point but let me be perfectly clear....


America has done many evil things to which there is no excuse such as Indian removal, Racism, slavery, Sexism and violating human rights over seas in wars. But I am also a realist, who looks at the big picture and what each nation has accomplished and how it has affected the Nations around them. I have never said America was perfect, i have never said she was always just. But you wanna know why American propaganda in general was some of the most effective patriotic brain washing ever accomplished? Its because the best propaganda is the one with truth mixed in it. It was so effective in short because, we were the good guys. It was effective because even though there were lies and cover ups in wars era where American propaganda ran wild, It worked because it appealed to the heart mind of America. On those posters and movies when people looked at them at called out to them and pleaded with the natural justice system in there hearts and minds and it repeated the philosophy that America holds most dear...Freedom.



Now, of course once leaders had the support of the people, they took advantage of it like with Iraq and Vietnam but my main point is, Most Americans are born with a natural sense of fairness installed them that can be compared to none else. And I am not saying other countries aren't as great as us because in general most people are born with a sense of right and wrong anyway but whats different with America is that the meaning is deeper, its more real which is why we get involved more then others in world affairs ( That and the fact our political system is extremely full of oil lobbyists ). In conclusion, America done evil which I am ashamed and will always anger me but once America dies out and some other superpower takes up the rains of number 1, We will not be remembered for what we did wrong, I assure you we will be remembered for what we did right. Its natural, once you hear the word " British Empire " People don't think about slavery, Wars, Corruption. They see the steam engine, they see Britain leading the way to north America, They hear funny British accents. Now of course what Britain has done wrong will never be forgotten, just not in front of mind. And if you do see the evil in empires and people constantly, never acknowledging the good they have done, well then I feel sorry for you, because you are missing out on a lot.


In Conclusion, America is a corrupt nation on a path to destruction, but we will always be number 1 on the nations list that spread freedom.....and corruption

Edited 2/7/2016 05:00:50

I am not even going to watch that video but I am assuming its some far right extreme view of America to which you are tying me to because you think it makes your point but let me be perfectly clear....

It's a .pdf, but you mostly are right.

America has done many evil things to which there is no excuse such as Indian removal, Racism, slavery, Sexism and violating human rights over seas in wars.

has done and is doing* Also, Indians live in India.

But you wanna know why American propaganda in general was some of the most effective patriotic brain washing ever accomplished? Its because the best propaganda is the one with truth mixed in it. It was so effective in short because, we were the good guys. It was effective because even though there were lies and cover ups in wars era where American propaganda ran wild, It worked because it appealed to the heart mind of America. On those posters and movies when people looked at them at called out to them and pleaded with the natural justice system in there hearts and minds and it repeated the philosophy that America holds most dear...Freedom.

So what you're saying is America's propoganda was so effective since America was/is such a great country? And the message that America holds most dear, that was just probably made up and revived from the 1700s when America went to go bomb somebody, something like that.

Most Americans are born with a natural sense of fairness installed them that can be compared to none else.

You know how centrist that is? Extremely so. What if I said every Kazakh was born with a natural sense of awesomeness, greatness, coolness, that makes everyone else look like poop?

And I am not saying other countries aren't as great as us because in general most people are born with a sense of right and wrong anyway but whats different with America is that the meaning is deeper, its more real which is why we get involved more then others in world affairs ( That and the fact our political system is extremely full of oil lobbyists ).

This is just precisely part of the propoganda - even if folk disagree with something, they don't want them to realise the government is evil, they just will say "that was a mistake, we tried to do the right thing".

In conclusion, America done evil which I am ashamed and will always anger me but once America dies out and some other superpower takes up the rains of number 1, We will not be remembered for what we did wrong, I assure you we will be remembered for what we did right.

That's a bold assumption. No country does right or wrong, they do pragmatic. And the past is taught it based on how the government wants it taught, in a good way or bad.

Its natural, once you hear the word " British Empire " People don't think about slavery, Wars, Corruption.

When I hear the word British Empire, I think genocide/settler cruelty, boring crowded houses, and pretensions society. This is just what I see when I hear British Empire, I certainly don't think leading the way to North America (they were not the first...), and the steam engine (a Spanish invention).

And if you do see the evil in empires and people constantly, never acknowledging the good they have done, well then I feel sorry for you, because you are missing out on a lot.

I see good in folk, but very rarely in governments.

I won't bother to reply to all of those but I am certainly glad Nome of them had any personal attacks on my intelligence :) in conclusion, I think many people here mistake patriotism for stupidity. So with a final quote I shall some up my beliefs on that


" Patriotism is not ignoring the evils of your nation and making excuses for the government. It's about acknowledging those mistakes and pointing out the evils and some how coming out of it all still believing the best in your country and her people " - C. M. Mills

Edited 2/7/2016 05:48:05

i was going as always to read all the post but when i saw the post about america trying to play the world policeman i couldnt resist to go to the end

Mr police officer i will give you a day and a year 21 April 1967
country=Greece
The american sponsored Junta(dictatorship) takes over Greece cause Greek and Cyprus goverment was taking steps away from USA (before you try to say anything be aware that Clinton asked sorry for the American involvement in Greece and he publicly accepted that USA helped the dictator)
For 7 years we had no democracy
Cause of this Turkey found an excuse and we lost half of Cyprus by the way it was admited by the USA that they knew about the turkish invasion in the island of Cyprus but they didnt cared this was a gift to turkey i presume.

After that you started meddling more with the matters of middle east but for me the worst thing you ve done was in iran mr police officer of the world

You manage to change history by removing the president of iran who was trying to take power from the church and and create a new modernized iran and you put a dictator in hes place and guess what happened? open the TV and look at the iran you made cause this iran is USA creation


Stop meddling in our problems you dont have an idea what middle east means

Edited 2/7/2016 08:51:09

Dr. Love I 100% agree with you , I never heard of this interference in Greek affairs, and this is very sad that because of this, your country suffered 7 years of dictatorship and lost some parts of territories for no valuable reasons.

There are blatant other examples of the US wrongdoings everywhere. The example of Iran (almost forgot this) is a sad event, orchestrated by the American government, to destroy a very promising revolution under President Mossadegh in the 50s who dared defy and call in question the US and Western interests, the revolution of the 50s (that strangely the US media and movies never mentioned at all), is not the more popular Islamic revolution of 1979 (how strange... for this event you have plenty of movies depicting the evil Islamic Iranians such as Argo in 2012...) which is actually the very result of the US interference by putting a dictator (the Shah) hated by his people without even caring about the further consequences.

One of the most horrible example of American interference is the assassination of president Salvador Allende, replaced by the dictator Pinochet backed up by CIA in Chile, starting a reign of terror and killing thousands and thousands of opponents and innocent people.

The US interference particularly worsened the situation in the Middle East and South America, if the US governments did not stick out their noses there, the situation would have been far better. The irony about this, is that the troubles in these regions are directly impacting the US: South America for not being stable faces a mass migration (hence the Trump's idea of building a wall, but you know this wall would not have been necessary of instead of destabilizing South America, you would have helped them developing the right way), and the Middle East is the very territory where terrorism is threatening directly the US, and is represented by many states such as Iran as being part of the Bush's simplistic view of geopolitics: the"Axe of Evil"... You see this is the perfect definition of the boomerang effect.

To answer this thread the situation in the Middle East is the direct consequence of the US intrusion in foreign affairs, the Islamic revolution of Iran, the Talibans in Afghanistan funded by the US against the Soviets, the Pakistani extremism (Pakistan was their favorite ally against India), the situation in Egypt (Nasser was a socialist president, secular and very progressive, but all fucked up with Al Sadat the exact opposite, pro US, capitalist and Islamist), the situation in Syria and Iraq (after the US invasion).

The thing is the question is wrongly formulated: Before leaving, you should have never tried to invade the middle east in the first place, the World is better without any US interferences...

Edited 2/7/2016 11:29:22

"we will always be number 1 on the nations list that spread freedom.....and corruption "

uuhhhmm... About spreading freedom everywhere, tell me which are the nations you liberated recently? Iraq? Afghanistan? Vietnam? Somalia? Very good joke.

Eastern Europe, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and many others where America successfully tried to spread democracy?. Koala, and even France as well when we saved your white asses from the Germans......twice. I'm not going to debate you koala, your very rude and resort to personal attacks and name calling much of the time and I simply refuse to debate someone who constantly does that. I just couldn't help but reply to that last one seeing how the irony in the statement made me luagh out loud

Edited 2/7/2016 14:49:51

America did not spread democracy there conservative... In Eastern Europe the people themselves liberated their nations after the collapse of the USSR, South Korea? For 30 years a nationalistic dictatorship was in place until the 80s, and South Korea before the USSR collapsed was even poorer compared to North Korea... Turkey? They owe nothing to you, it started well before in the 20s and the Turkish republic was copied from the European and French model (see Laïcité and Laïc states here's a summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9 ) that's why this state is still secular (not for long sadly) same thing applies for Tunisia more influenced by the French model, the only successful state to have a stable regime after the Arab revolutions, Egypt? I just told you earlier how it was ruined with Al Sadat who was backed up by the US... did you read my post? Sure you don't. Saudi Arabia? oh yes a great example of democracy... I hope this was ironical...

even France as well when we saved your white asses from the Germans......twice

Who saved you from the British? thanks to whom did you achieve independence and started to become a real nation? Thanks Lafayette. Furthermore, ww1 Gosh... You were very very late, most was already done, for more than 3 years we secured the front without your help wasting millions of lives, idiot. You are insulting millions of French (including many of my own family) that were killed during this atrocious war.

Stop blinding yourself, why do you think that the only people having a Jingoistic attitude such as you are Americans? Check it by yourself, Dr Love is Greek, Ox is Scottish, I am French, Kretoma is German, Juq is Belarussian, Chuck Norris is Australian and Dutch... Do you realize that the only people blinded by this extreme nationalistic US propaganda are (some) Americans such as you Conservative?

Edited 2/7/2016 15:19:02

You, GeneralPE, Varys, Conservative, Castle Bravo, and even MGSB before he came on Warlight all think of America as this country who tries to free folk, deal justice, be the world police, spread democracy, all the things.

Its so easy to say things when you don't have to give proof. Again don't make generalizations without evidence. When have I (and quote me directly) glorified America for "freeing folk, dealing justice, being the world police, and spreading democracy". Last time I checked I'm a neo-isolationist and I am strongly against America being a world police or spreading democracy. You clearly have a penchant for saying things you don't have proof of. Please don't slander or libel me thanks.

Oh my god i could rip those arguments to shreds but i said was gonna stop talking to angry to boycott how rude he is and how he needs to start acting like an adult in these debates. I mean honestly, Ox, Japan, and others are all good, friendly debaters who can actually politely have a conversation with me without acting like a stuck up jackass.

I am strongly against America being a world police or spreading democracy. You clearly have a penchant for saying things you don't have proof of. Please don't slander or libel me thanks.

First, it's definitively not slander, second, you are being very ironic. You're against America being a "world police" and "spreading democracy" - if you think these things, you clearly are glorifying a pragmatic government that does what's best for itself.

Oh my god i could rip those arguments to shreds but i said was gonna stop talking to angry to boycott how rude he is and how he needs to start acting like an adult in these debates. I mean honestly, Ox, Japan, and others are all good, friendly debaters who can actually politely have a conversation with me without acting like a stuck up jackass.

I never got how boycotting works outside of financially boycotting something.

Edited 2/7/2016 17:24:18

Oh screw it.

" Who saved you from the British? thanks to whom did you achieve independence and started to become a real nation? Thanks Who saved you from the British? thanks to whom did you achieve independence and started to become a real nation? Thanks Lafayette. Furthermore, ww1 Gosh... You were very very late, most was already done, for more than 3 years we secured the front without your help wasting millions of lives, idiot. You are insulting millions of French (including many of my own family) that were killed during this atrocious war.Lafayette. Furthermore, ww1 Gosh... You were very very late, most was already done, for more than 3 years we secured the front without your help wasting millions of lives, idiot. You are insulting millions of French (including many of my own family) that were killed during this atrocious war. "

^

1: The American Revolution was an endless war where the outcome had to be American independence, there was no way Britain could win. The French can only credited with helping us in our victory at Yorktown, that's it. Lafayette lol really? Lafayette did not affect the war in any way, saying we have him to thank for anything is laughable. He is just a symbol of French involvement


2: we were late? we were not even supposed to be fucking there! We had no bone in that fight, so stop acting like the stuck up Frenchmen you are and acknowledge we did not have to come at all. Frenchmen died, Englishmen died, Americans died, i am not buying the ' My family was affected in the most ugly way ' card because guess what? as hard as it may be to see this but you were not the only family who had family members die for there country. In America its called patriotism, and serving your country with honor.


3: Eastern Europe tried to revolt at the height of soviet power, got there asses handed to them. American arms, tech, info, and persistance on the soviet union, which led to the soviet collapse because they killed themselves while trying to compete against America, freed eastern Europe. It did not happen by themselves, they had help from many nations but many the US.



I aint gonna answer all these charges because I have school to finish but let me say this. Angry, you were brought up in a generation that has been extremely left and anti-American. You were raised in that society, its just the way you are. I cannot change your mind on any of this nor you I but i can say this and I would bet everything I own on it, If America completely did everything you wanted and pulled out tomorrow out of world affairs your world would shatter. I truly hope that one day you look at history book of WW1 or WW2 and see pictures of dead americans, remember they died so you could have the right to sit there on your tablet or computer and type hateful mean things about there country, they died so you could sit and insult me like a child, they died so your children could have the right to do the very same. They died for every Frenchmen and Englishmen who wanted to live freely. That was not propaganda, that is how there minds worked and that is how they saw it. I will always have the satisfaction of knowing that the freedom you use to tear down America, was partly bought by American lives.

Edited 2/7/2016 17:47:03

First, it's definitively not slander, second, you are being very ironic. You're against America being a "world police" and "spreading democracy" - if you think these things, you clearly are glorifying a pragmatic government that does what's best for itself.

What is wrong with you? Do you understand the english language? How in any way am I glorifying my country. First off I am against America being a world police and spreading democracy, but that does not mean that is the position of the US government. Despite my objections, the war hawks in bot parties support the idea of the US as an imperialistic force that must solve all the problems, despite them not being in our nation's interest.

You're a hypocrite. You criticize people for thinking America should be a world police force and then in the same breadth you criticize people who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs. I've never seen such ridiculous double standards.