Guys guys stop fighting you can both be the victim can we stop now

GeneralPE, Varys, Conservative, Castle Bravo, and even MGSB before he came on Warlight all think of America as this country who tries to free folk, deal justice, be the world police, spread democracy, all the things. You may find criticisms, but you'll say that was just a "mistake" and that America tried to do the right thing. So much for being hard-pressed.

Um... I don't like the American Gov. And I don't think we should be getting involved in most of the world.

And thanks for putting me in the same sentence as politically ignorant Conservative.

1: The American Revolution was an endless war where the outcome had to be American independence, there was no way Britain could win. The French can only credited with helping us in our victory at Yorktown, that's it. Lafayette lol really? Lafayette did not affect the war in any way, saying we have him to thank for anything is laughable. He is just a symbol of French involvement

Conservative, since the Revolutionary War it is a custom to heavily downplay the French contributions and their war effort in the US, I guess you even did not know that the French efforts for the American revolution led to an indirect consequence as the heavy debts accumulated because of these heavy contributions since 1775 led to a bankruptcy, this only shows you how much we contributed on this.
The 13 colonies would never have earned their freedom without French intervention, the whole battle for American independence was essentially a proxy war between Britain and France. To the French, America was nothing but another theater in their grand blood feud against Britain. They were all about making the Englishmen eat every last available dick, and since they noticed they could use the colonists' struggle for independence as a handy feeding pen, that's exactly what they did.
France began providing arms and ammunition as early as 1776 (the war started in 1775). In early 1777, months before Saratoga, the French sent American colonists 25,000 uniforms and pairs of boots, hundreds of cannons, and thousands of muskets, all stuff that the colonists would've had a hard time surviving without, and all stuff they had no access to on their own. And that was just the tip of the iceberg: From supplies to advice to military reinforcements, France exercised all the fiscal restraint of a drunk businessman at a strip club when it came to funding the American war.
France provided a whopping 90 percent of the rebels' gunpowder. Let that sink in for a second. Without France, the entire American Revolution would have devolved into a bunch of dudes swinging their muskets as clubs within weeks.

So, when the Colonial army was fighting for dear freedom, US history books tend to conveniently forget that they did so with French money, equipment, and backup forces, while France and its other allies were busy pummeling the empire from every other side.

2: we were late? we were not even supposed to be fucking there! We had no bone in that fight, so stop acting like the stuck up Frenchmen you are and acknowledge we did not have to come at all. Frenchmen died, Englishmen died, Americans died, i am not buying the ' My family was affected in the most ugly way ' card because guess what? as hard as it may be to see this but you were not the only family who had family members die for there country. In America its called patriotism, and serving your country with honor.

Now, about WW1, the contribution of the US were really minimal compared to France, Russia or Britain. The triple entente powers alone were stopping the Germans and Austrians. They intervened very late (1917) despite the US being long term allies of France and the UK.
France in 1914 had a population of just under 40 million and an army with a mobilized strength of 1.1m. By the end of the war France had mobilized 8.6m men and lost 1.39m dead and 4.25m wounded which represents almost 70% of casualties in the total mobilized, almost 100% more dead and 150% more wounded than comparative figures for Great Britain, with a population of 45m. As for the US lost 116,708 men and only 7% as casualties of the total mobilized.
Now by blatant facts and figures I hope you see the huge difference of mobilization and the heavy tributes we paid during ww1.

3: Eastern Europe tried to revolt at the height of soviet power, got there asses handed to them. American arms, tech, info, and persistance on the soviet union, which led to the soviet collapse because they killed themselves while trying to compete against America, freed eastern Europe. It did not happen by themselves, they had help from many nations but many the US.

I would like to know your sources about these supposed "American arms, tech, info". The USSR collapsed internally, and the people eventually revolted for freedom and independence (for the Eastern European states), foreign contributions were minimal.

I aint gonna answer all these charges because I have school to finish but let me say this. Angry, you were brought up in a generation that has been extremely left and anti-American. You were raised in that society, its just the way you are.

First of all, I am not Anti-American, I am simply against American Jingoists such as you spreading their nationalist venom everywhere, tell me if you were impartial and unbiased, why are you simply ignoring other people like Dr. Love participating here?

I cannot change your mind on any of this nor you I but i can say this and I would bet everything I own on it, If America completely did everything you wanted and pulled out tomorrow out of world affairs your world would shatter.

No, I actually would congratulate the US if they just stopped interfering everywhere and stopped worsening the World's situation particularly in the Middle East. I blame the US for the bad influence on many countries in recent history: you got the example of Greece cited by Dr Love, and I also gave you many examples of other countries that had their destiny changed by the wrongdoings of Americans interfering everytime and everywhere.

I truly hope that one day you look at history book of WW1 or WW2 and see pictures of dead americans, remember they died so you could have the right to sit there on your tablet or computer and type hateful mean things about there country,

Did you ever open a history book? Furthermore I did not know that people had tablet and computers in 1918 or 1940...

they died so you could sit and insult me like a child, they died so your children could have the right to do the very same. They died for every Frenchmen and Englishmen who wanted to live freely. That was not propaganda, that is how there minds worked and that is how they saw it. I will always have the satisfaction of knowing that the freedom you use to tear down America, was partly bought by American lives.

And the French, the British, the Germans, the Chinese or the Russians also lost many people for freedom. Gosh... your extreme nationalistic ideology is so nauseating, you cannot even consider other countries' achievement and contributions.

I forgot to mention an important thing another Uk/usa intervation in the greek civil war this is a bit older but we still try to forget what happened and this war was one of the reasons that the dictatorship came later the wounds which a civil war make are always very deep imagine that this civil war happened after the WW2 in a war wich we lost around 500.000 people (most was from famine) and we speak for a country with 7million people at that time (source used wikipedia i used an international source to be more acurate to international numbers)

The conflict was orchestrated by the great powers in order to bring greece towards the allies or the ussr the allies wanted Greece badly cause of its position


A big thanks to USA for aiding Greece with Napalm B :P (really think about it a country devastated from the ww2 and after the end of war with italy first which we won ang with germany and bulgaria after which we lost a civil war comes and USA aid us by bombing whatever was standing:P)
But lets not be arrogant they had English help too:P

The war erupted in 1946
i will copy some quotes from wikipedia

Despite setbacks suffered by government forces from 1946 to 1948, increased American aid, the failure of the DSE to attract sufficient recruits and the side effects of the Tito–Stalin split eventually led to victory for the government troops. The final victory of the western-allied government forces led to Greece's membership in NATO and helped to define the ideological balance of power in the Aegean Sea for the entire Cold War. The civil war also left Greece with a vehemently anticommunist security establishment, which would lead to the establishment of the Greek military junta of 1967–74 and a legacy of political polarisation that lasted until the 1980s.


Napalm B was also used during the Greek Civil War between the Greek Army and Communist rebels. During 1949, the last year of the war, the United States increased its military aid to the Greek Government by introducing a new weapon to finish off the war: napalm B. The first napalm attack in Greece took place on the mountain of Grammos, which was the stronghold of the Communist rebels.[

Edited 2/7/2016 22:35:53

Do you have sources for any of this?

most of them are from wikipedia as i saied i already sended you via mail the sources

What is wrong with you? Do you understand the english language? How in any way am I glorifying my country. First off I am against America being a world police and spreading democracy, but that does not mean that is the position of the US government. Despite my objections, the war hawks in bot parties support the idea of the US as an imperialistic force that must solve all the problems, despite them not being in our nation's interest.

You know, this is your last warning, before I will become hostile, too. Anyhow, I may have been mistaken - so you think America has never fought or helped some war, being genuinely generous since 1900? Either way, I'm not "hard-pressed" to find folk that do think that.

You're a hypocrite. You criticize people for thinking America should be a world police force and then in the same breadth you criticize people who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs. I've never seen such ridiculous double standards.

I don't think I'm a hypocrite. Yes, I disagree with folk for thinking America should be a world police force and then in the same breadth I disagree with folk who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs. That's not hypocritic, though. I disagree with folk for thinking America should be a world police force, while I disagree with some folk who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs for their still patriotic beliefs.

Um... I don't like the American Gov. And I don't think we should be getting involved in most of the world.

Sorry - you used to.

while I disagree with some folk who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs for their still patriotic beliefs.

Okay I'm genuinely lost here. Connect the dots. How does believing America should not get involved in other nation's affairs representative of their patriotic belief? In fact it is a sign of respect to other nations that we don't understand your history, culture, and political beliefs better than you and so we want to give you the freedom to decide your own course. This holds true as long as they are not violent or attack us in any way. Its not patriotism that leads to the belief of non-interventionism and isolationism, its the idea that the a better system of government is one in which the military and the federal government does not have so much power (which inevitably leads to the desire to conduct war and expand empires).

Edited 2/8/2016 03:52:09

Okay I'm genuinely lost here. Connect the dots. How does believing America should not get involved in other nation's affairs representative of their patriotic belief?

It's not connected, that's the point. They still are patriotic, that is what I criticise, not them advocated miltary passivity.

How do you know they're still "patriotic"? Unless you have ESP. They may have pride in their country (which is not wrong), but I don't think they have the patriotism you would see in people who advocate interventionism.

Yes, I have ESP. Your argument is invalid.

(but seriously, very last warning about the hostility)

I disagree with almost all patriotism's magnitudes.

(but seriously, very last warning about the hostility)

Oooo wowwwww you got me scared kid...let me go hide in my nuclear bunker.

Of course you couldn't answer the question on how you know that people who advocate isolationism or non-interventionism are still high on "patriotism". Let me know if you ever come up with a logical argument.

You know, why don't you go back to the 1700s, when your kind of dumbness war the majority - you'd fit much better with like folk who don't read - although you can read, you can't understand a thing you read. The snarkiness might not go so well, though - be careful not to get hanged when even folk like you get tired of you.

I don't understand how lacking a brain you must to understand, I criticise all patriotism levels, and patriotism and non-interventionism are most likely negatively corelated, but that doesn't matter, they're still patriotic. Centrism and supremacism are signs of patriotism, but more directly, praising the country and its past. From those who think that George Washington was Jesus in a wig to those who think that America is trying to do its best to spread freedom to other countries who need it.

You need serious help my friend.

You know, why don't you go back to the 1700s, when your kind of dumbness war the majority

Yes..."war the majority". Tell me again how dumb I am?

you'd fit much better with like folk who don't read

"with like folk"

I don't know if I am speaking to a grown adult or a 15 year old girl who doesn't know how to speak.

Ah its so sad when people can't find a logical argument with statistics or fact to fit their ideology or biases. Yes yes your are making 0% sense!!

patriotism and non-interventionism are most likely negatively corelated.

Thank you for conceding the point. Try again next time with ad hominem attacks. No one called George Washington Jesus. And no one (at least not me) said that America should spread freedom to other countries who need it.

You need serious help my friend.

Don't kid yourself, get off your high horse and get back into the muck where you came from.

Yes..."war the majority". Tell me again how dumb I am?

You know, I probably meant "was" the first time, but now it's fitting - you're so dumb, you hate somewhat dumb folk, too.

"with like folk"

No thing wrong in this phrase I see. with = accompanied by (another person or thing); like = (of a person or thing) having similar qualities or characteristics to another person or thing; folk = people in general. Accompanied by folk having similar characteristics to you.

I don't know if I am speaking to a grown adult or a 15 year old girl who doesn't know how to speak.

First, tell me why a normal 15-year old girl is inable to speak, second, сіз қазақша сөйлейсіз бе?

I'll tell you what I don't know, your age. But I can make a pretty good guess based on your brains: permanently unable to learn anything so doesn't matter.

Ah its so sad when people can't find a logical argument with statistics or fact to fit their ideology or biases. Yes yes your are making 0% sense!!

Y'know, this is awfully hypocritic. You point out a typo, but I can see so many here. Ah , it ' s so sad when people can't find a logical argument with statistics or fact to fit their ideology or biases. Yes , yes , you're making 0% sense !

Now, first bit, "it's so sad". Who are you kidding, you're not sad. You're beginning to sound like Angry Koala, which is only good if you like to be bad.
"people can't find a logical argument with statistics or fact to fit their ideology or biases." - when I gave you stats on warlight.net visitors, you ignored it. patriotism in 9 different countries, you basically said, ha, no, that's wrong. Less than half of Americans are patriotic. Then I showed you a Gallup poll just on America showing that 54% Americans think of themselves as "very patriotic". You must have ignored that, too. Now, I await your logic argument (what was it, again?), and your (ghost) stats.

Also, I'm not going to get proof that these folk that I aforesaid all are patriotic - I learned by talking and listening to them, and getting evidence for that would be painstaking, especially for the ones that are no longer so patriotic.

Thank you for conceding the point. Try again next time with ad hominem attacks. No one called George Washington Jesus. And no one (at least not me) said that America should spread freedom to other countries who need it.

Conceding the point? Wow, your twin or something must have been reading for you, while you typed. Or you're just very stupid. That was the point all along - there was no positive correlation with that, I criticised them on their l(ower level of) patriotism, not on them going for a non-warmongering policy. And for the record, you are the one who began attacks, not me, so why don't you try, with your fancy Latin, stop attacking? Maybe strengthen your weak defences? And I am not literally meaning George Washington was Jesus in a wig, it is called a metaphor.

Juq no one cares about your essays. The argument is over. You failed to make a good case and you basically lied in attacking me.


Enjoy your life.

Edited 2/10/2016 01:29:32

If you think this is un essai, you've seen naught. You're just copping out. If you don't care about arguing your point, you can forfeit the argument, I didn't expect much anybody else expect you to care to defend whatever brains you have. You probably have no idea whether I make a good case or not, since you don't seem to have read it, and I warned you, didn't I, about being snarky, quite a few times. Closed-minded bigots like you don't concede points though, they make some insult up and then leave. Well, thank you for teaching me something, one thing.

You're an idiot and you're shouting into an echo chamber. Nobody has enough time in their life to deal with you. Please don't call me a bigot for having a different opinion than you. No one else cared about your post except me and even I don't care. I won't concede anything because there's nothing to concede since you didn't make an argument. Good luck with your clan and have fun being an ass to other people on OT forum.

Edited 2/10/2016 01:46:06

Jai, face it. You lost. I'm sorry, but Xpapy won this argument. Don't be rude to him, he's a nice guy.