The ladders suck. How would you rate them on a scale of 1-10? My ratings are based on two factors: fun and strategic dynamism.

1v1 ladder went from 8.5/10 (0% WR, random orders) to 6/10 (0% SR, cycling orders).

2v2 ladder went from 7/10 (16% WR, random orders, ME) to 5/10 (16% WR, random orders, Final Earth) to 6/10 (0% SR, cycling orders, Final Earth). Three templates that would be better: ME 0% WR (8/10), ME 0% SR (7.5/10) and Final Earth with settings that weren't adopted from another map's template (7-8/10).

3v3 ladder: Bumblebee and I basically created the original 3v3 Europe template -- Europe 3v3 Cities. Then, a small group of us experimented with settings to arrive at 3v3 Europe Warlords, 4 starts. Eventually SR was created and we had our preferences: either WR or SR, but both are acceptable. Yet never did we think cycling orders was ideal for 3v3 Europe. Fizzer is quite bad at team games and is clueless when it comes to 3v3 Europe. But he wants to promote coin games, so Europe 3v3's settings must have coin game settings (cycling orders). WTF. Warlight's app reads, "Warlight, Strategy & Risk." Based on the trend of coin game settings, it would be more accurate if the app read, "Warlight, Coins & Accounting."

The evolution of 3v3 Europe's standard templates:
Cities 75% WR (7/10)
Cities 0%-50% WR (7.5/10)
Warlords 16%-75% WR (8/10)
Warlords 0% WR (9/10)
Warlords 0% SR (8/10)
3v3 Ladder: 0% SR, cycling orders (6.5/10)

RT Ladder: 5.5/10. It is such a disappointing ladder that Fizzer acts like it no longer exists.

Seasonal Ladder: 6.5/10. It does what one would hope, namely introduce new maps and settings. But it would do it so much better if players voted on the templates each season.

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Advice for playing the ladders:

1v1: Play this if you don't care about template perfection and if you enjoy bean counting (or have enough time to bean count).

2v2: Play this if you want something to do but don't really care if the template isn't all that strategic. Hell, if the template had no wastelands and used autopicking, your team's rating probably wouldn't suffer much.

3v3: If you enjoy the ultimate exercise in bean counting, this is the template for you! This template has the highest time-to-fun ratio: You will invest far more time in your 3v3 ladder games than any other game, yet your work will not always be rewarded (pick lottery still exists, and SR 0% and cycling orders make the outcome of the game become more fixed earlier than if it were WR 0% random orders). But if you just want to throw armies around and LEARN how to play 3v3 Europe, this is like riding a bike with training wheels (that impede you from going full speed and being able to maneuver fully). If you ignore the bean counting (and thus opt for limited intel) and have poor cooperation (no mirror picking, no help, no 2v1s or 3v2s), then this could be fun...but your rating will forever be below 1700.

RT ladder: Play this is you are bored, drunk, or just want to mess around. If you want to play the best 1v1 templates possible, have the rating you deserve, and finish your games within 35 minutes, then this is not the ladder for you.

Seasonal ladder: This ladder comes down to time and interest. Is the template interesting? Do you have time?

Edited 2/13/2016 18:11:57

We discussed this post on wgl. I agree on almost everything. Maybe fizzer didn't only forget the rt ladder exist but he forgot that any ladder exist?

And it seems that Fizzer has also forotten that he was going to give us some ladder polls. He had the perfect opportunity to do it after the last seasonal ended so that we could vote on a template or something....

I agree, the ladders are a disappointing waste of potential. Fizzer obviously doesn't give much of a shit about them.

yeah the ladders could of been dealt with better. I find it interesting that you rate the 2v2 ladder so highly though. I thought it was terrible. There are SO many great ideas discussed on the forums and the uservoice and people like Muli who actively try to improve Warlight because they enjoy the game and want to see it improve.

I call BS on the argument of "ah, but Frizzer has a lot of work he needs to do single-handedly" when there is so many people offering to help and so many great ideas. When the updates do arrive its not what anyone wanted and it makes us look like dicks when we complain.

For eg. he knows how many people are dissatisfied with the RT ladder and many good suggestions have been made yet he doesn't do anything about it when all it is, is a simple template change.

I don't know who's alt you are, but you are obviously to scared to post with your main. (also if this is your current main ... you obliviously don't play a lot)

But anyway. I think the hardest parts about the ladders is finding out what everyone wants. "make a poll" they say! But how in the world do we give votes to? how do we stop anyone from making millions of bots (or just one) to mess up the poll. If you have an idea on how to do a poll well Fizzer would probably like to read that better then that rant up there.

Also if you want your perfect ladder so much, FUCKING MAKE IT. Fizzer has given the ability to do that with CLOTs. It might take some time away from you picking phases (i know valuable time) but you might just like what you make.

New ladder template:9.5. old ladder template fun but not strategic ( has so luck).so 9 for me.

mighty speck it's gui, there is the Option to make clots, clots exist but they are much less competitive cause less Players participate. fact is fizzer made ladders in the past then changed stuff or promised changes but nothing happens at all

Well if you get enough elites to join it will be competitive (especially if you slap some fancy names on their ((i.e.Gui (that's fancy right?) and Dead Piggy) everybody and their alt would join). and even though there are like 300 people on the ladder you'll only get a match with someone with in 50 ranks of you.

(also not to sure who Gui is ... he sounds old though)

Edited 2/13/2016 21:36:01

Gui/Qi is the guy that made like half of he most popular strategic templates :p

Gui also Qi, gui's secretary, strategos (da vici) and owns pdp is above average skill.

Screw you Onoma

Yeah Guiroma was made by him and he made the ancient Greece map

Edited 2/13/2016 21:42:05

1v1 Ladder: if you want to be stubborn and keep SR, so be it, change the income to 3.

2v2 Ladder: no debate here in the community (not really), give us 4 picks.

3v3 Ladder: if Gui wants WR here so bad he can make a CLOT, this is a fairly good ladder.

RT Ladder: Remove LD from Turkey, make EA&O 0%WR or SR, Strat Me SR match 1v1 ladder, Remove Heavy Earth & Season I, add Snow Mountains, Strat ME WR.

Seasonal Ladder: make a rule where no map can be used twice for 30 seasons. No exceptions.

Gui might be a little harsh but he has valid points on most of the ladders.

Would be nice if Fizzer read this and made some small changes to improve the ladders.

"Fucking make it": Ladders are built in (efficiency ↑, number of players ↑). They are publicized on the community page (competition ↑). They offer shiny gold trophies (self-esteem ↑, competition ↑).

Fizzer has a monopoly.

The only thing that can compete with the ladders is Clan League. But that is a team competition, not an individual competition.

What Clan League could do...see this thread: https://www.warlight.net/Forum/136669-champions-league-within-clan-league

Edited 2/14/2016 02:28:26

kid strikes again

Edited 2/14/2016 04:03:40

I agree with all the ratings except the current 3v3 ladder. I think it is fine(although attack only would be nice)

"I don't know who's alt you are, but you are obviously to scared to post with your main."

Yeah, no. When he made that account he made it, asked someone to buy it membership, and said he'd play 2v2 ladder as their teammate if they did. It was never a secret that qui=gui.

"eah Guiroma was made by him and he made the ancient Greece map "

And Final Earth, the map used on the 2v2 ladder.

Edited 2/14/2016 11:33:49

Basically a bump... but here's some logic:

Warlight Players = Lazy
Lazy People buy Memberships to play ladders
Ladders = Shit
Most People Don't buy shit
No Membership Purchases = Less Money

Therefore, Shit Ladders = Less Money

Edited 2/15/2016 05:01:56

ME 2v2 needs to be brought back, was one of the most intense and enjoyable templates, in my opinion.