I don't think it does. People who have money and are really willing to buy guns always will. But the low tier thugs and normal citizens won't be able to.

Sure, they can. It's not either rich folk all the time or guns falling out of the air for every gun murder. They will find a market, thugs and normal denizens, too, or potentially make their own. And normal citizens if they fear for their life, live in a bad town, they can buy legally buy a gun in America, but in France, they just illegally buy it.

They can, but it is HARDER. Guns used on the Paris attacks were all from contraband. To acquire those, they needed funding from ISIS, contacts and places to hide their guns. It offers many chances for the intelligence agencies to find them, as well as it forces less organized terrorists to make attacks with knives for example.

In France alone, there are estimated to be 17,000,000 illegal guns out of the 19,000,000 total guns. If you see a civilian with a gun, you can assume that it is illegally gotten. That goes to a 26% ownership rate of illegal guns. And it's not that hard to get guns. You either can get them from another country and smuggle them in at an unchecked border, or get one from a friend who has one, and like with drugs, it challenges folk to disobey the law, and this happens more.

I doubt it... Freer gun laws reduce other genre murders and transfer it to guns. It's easier to kill with a gun then a knife for instance. In the US, the vast majority of murders is commited by guns. In the UK it's the opposit.

Ok, after reading a bit, I see I've gotten it wrong, the actual conclusion is that gun regulations have no definite corelation to murder rates. Still no grounds to ban guns.

So you want to support the bombing the country trying to stop separatists from leaving while destroying industry across that country and the seperatists' wanted land, while supporting the separatists who later ethically cleansed the area of Roma and Serb Kosovars while still committing atrocities against the remaining Serb and Roma folk there? The Taliban did not have complete control of Afghanistan, yet you feel no remorse subjecting the folk of all of Afghanistan to martial law and a government that's as bad as Saudi Arabia plus years of warfare and destruction of economic assets destroying the lives of folk there. Obama and Bush had no right as the leaders of the "free" world to go and kill thousands of people.

Ox, that's the most pathetic justification for government tyranny I've heard in a long time. "Well everyone was doing it!". Are you saying that Germanization efforts against the Poles and Ukraines and outright extermination of Jews and Russians were justified because other folk were doing it? The US, Latin American and European massacres and ethnic cleansings against American Aborigines were justified? Tsh and you only get mad about killings when I rightly state that Great Britain's (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland with Ireland at some points) government was involved in dozens of mass killings and atrocities because you didn't like me not saying that the English did it (even though these atrocities were done under the , not English, but British government).

Also another thing: If you folk want to be the leaders of the "free world" then institute some more freedoms at home and lead by example not by war. If not, just admit you're imperialists and don't try stepping around that.

Define

some freedoms at home

(Basically, what do you want?)

wat are ur thoughts on the fact that this year is at its most peaceful compared 2 history

Actual freedom of speech and privacy (no KGB style monitoring and controlling of the media) , no attacks on voluntary exchanges between folk (a man working for 3 dollars a hour is, guess what, a win-win for both folk), no infringement on the right of folk to have weapons (except maybe nuclear weapons, I think I can give you that) , no government favoring of certain companies and corporations that create monopolies and raise prices, the significant reduction (or removal) of tariffs on foreign goods (you know why soda and sweet companies use corn syrup instead of sugar? Sugar tariffs) , no passports or at least accept world passports, making bitcoin legal currency, getting rid of the NSA , FBI and CIA, demilitarizing the police, let businesses reject who they don't like (folk hate businesses that do that, let the folk of America get it done) , and as a non-freedom related extra, stop being the average dictators' arms dealer.

Edited 4/19/2016 03:01:13

I like the last one in particular.

wats wrong with selling arms to dictators

Government needs to do three things, in my opinion: shield your

*health
*stuff
*life

And a few other things are ok, too (like building roads and bridges), but don't do too much.

Edited 4/19/2016 03:57:16

@Benjamin628

There's a lot of contraband of guns, but not only. Brazilian borders are very badly protected. Plus when government raised the gun restrictions a few years ago, they didn't really care to really remove those that were already in circulation.

Therefore the ban isn't really in place at all lol. Plus it isn't that hard to acquire legal guns, just like the US, hardly gun owners go through all checkings when selling a gun.


@Жұқтыру

Please correct your statistics, they're really weirdly put on when it comes to percentages. Plus I'm pretty sure you don't need to register your guns as a mandatory thing, so many unregistered guns aren't illegal. Just new guns are registered, many old world war and hunting guns aren't registered.

And I have to say something, I feel way safer in France then I did in the US where theres more guns then people in the country. That feeling is proved by statistics. Also, most gun related murders in France are in relation to mafia or other kind of special crime tiers. The normal citizen will hardly by killed by a gun, it's more likely he's killed by any other thing really.

Edited 4/19/2016 04:02:43

About people who keep quoting Switzerland, it's a valid argument that guns can be managed in a safe way, but it's just one example between many counter-examples, and there's way more to put into account.

=> Good quality education is provided by the government for free.
=> The minimum wage is very high
=> The poverty rating isn't very high, and the poverty line is really one of the highest on the world, so even very poor people aren't that poor.
=> Healthcare isn't free, but everyone is recquired to have insurance, which is subzidized by the gvt if needed. It's one of the best healthcare systems on the world btw.
=> The social security in Switzerland includes several public and private insurance plans to promote the welfare of the population.

Should I keep going on? The day the US has all of this, maybe gun related deaths won't be as much of a problem. But until then, stop quoting Switzerland as your counter-example for gun responsability, because if you think none of the above is a right, then gun ownership sure as hell shouldn't be one.

guns are important

u can defeat the tyrannical government that has the most powerful military on earth by having a ak 47

Please correct your statistics, they're really weirdly put on when it comes to percentages. Plus I'm pretty sure you don't need to register your guns as a mandatory thing, so many unregistered guns aren't illegal. Just new guns are registered, many old world war and hunting guns aren't registered.

I don't see what is wrong with the stats, anyhow, all automatic (fully banned from private wield), semi-automatic assault weapons, and handguns (near banned from private wield), which just leaves some shotguns as unregulated, which don't make up a very big bit of the 17,000,000.

And I have to say something, I feel way safer in France then I did in the US where theres more guns then people in the country. That feeling is proved by statistics.

What's your feeling to do with it? It matters what actually happens, not "feelings". Also, especially in America, it probably depends where you go. Marseille and Texas are different from Paris and New York.

Also, most gun related murders in France are in relation to mafia or other kind of special crime tiers. The normal citizen will hardly by killed by a gun, it's more likely he's killed by any other thing really.

It's probably the same in America, so what?

Again, I'd be for banning guns, but that doesn't work at all, so just do the way that gives the most freedoms.

Switzerland doesn't have a minimum wage. I seriously doubt crime was a problem in Switzerland before 1848. Healthcare in Switzerland is private not government controlled , stop advocating government controlled healthcare if your gold standard is private not government owned. And on private social security: Since private social security is good, why do we need extortion and inflation to pay for folk?

@Жұқтыру

I'm from the south dude... Marseilles is the city my father was born and I went there several times already. It's not nearly as bad as people think lol... It just has a bad reputation. I'd say the city is way safer the most of the US for real.


@Major General Smedley Butler

There are a lot of minimum wages rules in switzerland. There isn't a national minimum wage, but a lot of professions and sectors have their own while some have none. Still, on those where there is minimum wage, it is a very high one.

I never said private healthcare was better, but the switzerland's system who is very close to Obamacare works really well. Which is really ironic to me, because it seems here that you have a double standart on this matter.

My official position is to defend the French system, which is considered the best in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000

Edited 4/19/2016 05:14:04

abolish the minimum wage

Juq give your source first before giving random figures as it is far from being accurate, and last but not least, your high figure is easy to explain: I know many people in France that have a gun (or more) in their home, see my family: my grandfather, my uncles, etc, they all hold a rifle in their home for hunting (since it is a national sport in the place I am from alongside fishing), this factor could alone explain why there is those hypothetical 17 million guns in France (which aren't illegal at all as I will show you just below)

Lets take a look on the French legislation about it:

"Avant d'acquérir une arme de chasse, il faut savoir à quel régime administratif elle est soumise. En effet, dans certains cas, il faut déclarer l'arme à la préfecture et dans d'autres cas, il faut simplement procéder à son enregistrement auprès de la préfecture."

-> Basically it means you only need to go to a prefecture and register your rifle and that's all. Then, you can keep freely your rifle uncharged at your home, my Grandpa keeps his rifle in his own toilet x)

why do we need extortion and inflation to pay for folk?

Why do we need extortion and inflation to pay for the army, for the defense industry, for bankrupted banks or for intelligence agencies?

A state should have higher priorities like improving its welfare system and education, more than anything else. Something that will not happen at all with people like Cruz, the Donald or even the Klington.

Edited 4/19/2016 11:30:09

@TG a law to increase the LEGAL minimum wage in Switzerland from 0 to 22 Swiss francs an hour was rejected by 76% of the voters.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I'm just gonna throw some numbers in here.

First of all, these European countries which supposedly have "no guns" actually have some of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. For Example:

Switzerland: Ranked fourth, 45.7 guns per 100 people
Cyprus: Ranked fifth, 36.4 guns per 100 people
Sweden: Ranked ninth, 31.6 Guns per 100 people
Norway: Ranked tenth, 31.6 Guns per 100 people
France: Ranked eleventh, 31.2 guns per 100 people
Austria: Ranked thirteenth, 30.4 guns per 100 people
Iceland: Ranked fourteenth, 30.3 guns per 100 people
Germany: Ranked fifteenth, 30.3 guns per 100 people

I could go on, but you get the point. And these numbers are all far above the world average of 10.2 guns per 100 people.

And furthermore, some of the nations with the lowest gun ownership rates aren't exactly known for being the most stable, prosperous nations:

Tunisia: 0.1 guns per 100 people
Ghana, Ethiopia: 0.4 guns per 100 people
Eritrea, Bangladesh: 0.5 guns per 100 people
Sierra Leone, Rwanda, North Korea: 0.6 guns per 100 people

And one final stat:

It's a misconception that the US has the highest rate of gun violence in the world. Sure, when you take all gun related deaths the US ranks number 12 with 10.54 deaths per 100,000 people. However, 2/3rds of these gun-related deaths (6.77) are either accidental deaths, or suicides, AKA not exactly "Gun Violence". When you only account for Homicides, the US only has 3.43 homicides related to guns per 100,000 people.

When you're dealing with numbers this small, you have to ask yourself if it really worth breaching freedom over, especially given all the countries with stricter gun control laws that have much higher rates of gun homicides.

Just to put that number into context:

South Africa: 12.61 gun related homicides per 100,000 people, or 3x that of the US
Brazil: 18.79 gun related homicides per 100,000 people, or 6x that of the US
Honduras: 66.64 gun related homicides per 100,000 people, or 20x that of the US

Edited 4/19/2016 14:56:52