I think if u want to change it, than next season is the better option. The time span is just to short to react on the change now. Players might have joined a new clan but still promised to play with an alt for their old clan. Since they thought that this is possible it would be bad to force them now to decide to either disappoint their old clan and don't play for them this season or force them to leave their new clan.

And it also will cause huge problems in a scenario during the season if a clan splits up like it happened with 101st and Outlaws last season. Then u're forced to make a quick decision regarding the CL spot. But for such an important decision u need time, which u don't have on a split.

I also agree with Ben that this rule could benefit clans who have a training clan, because players already are in the community and can easily wait with a change to the top clan, while other players won't be able to make such an easy decision.

I do not like that rule in general, as I do not see any reason to introduce it. Where is the advantage for the competition. I do not see any! I only see disadvantages...

Furthermore it is way to late to introduce such a rule now, as all clans are already plan their line-up and would need much more time to react to this rule.

I don't like your idea Great Expanse. Why should he allow people to join mid season that are new to a clan? That allows for people to jump ship on their previous clan mid season, and possibly play for two different clans in the same season.

It also results in extra admin work. You guys do realize that altering the roster mid season IS WORK for the people running it, right? There is little benefit to that, so why allow it?

Then just remove rule 1 and use the original roster rule of 25 players at the beginning of the season which was created to control who does play for a clan. I see little reason why there is now a second rule that limits who can play for a clan.

You guys do realize that altering the roster mid season IS WORK for the people running it, right?

Anyone in their right mind does, and therefore, knows that adding new, extra rules this far in with no warning and expecting players to oblige and not make use of the several obvious loopholes here is a really bad move when it comes to sheer simplicity or softness of 'admin work'. They kind of asked for more admin work.

All of these rules are bound to have terrible problems and drama like last CL.

Yeah I agree. If we can all agree of what a main is(and it's really obvious which account is the main in almost all circumstances), we can use common sense.

If this exists, there is no purpose on a baseline/rule whatsoever. Rules don't have to always be good, they just have to be good most of the times. Pick a criteria and stick to it, no common sense or arbitrariness. The last time "common sense" was used to pick sides it caused a big forum drama fight between Outlaws and 101st because it wasn't so "common" after all.

As for the criteria in use, points is just bad. Levels would probably be more fair. Something like "highest level with activity in the past 10 days" would ensure inactive old accounts are not going to be involved + ensure newer accounts with less activity which were used for a ladder reroll or something were not taken as the main (several cases listened in above posts).

3. We will permit 8 substitutions per clan due to the clarification on 1.

This is where 80% of the loopholes in here come from. EIGHT substitutions? That's a massive lot. At least cut that considerably if you want to avoid abusing.

---

tl;dr clan league being clan league. Seems like we've got a lot of stuff to learn from past mistakes, still.

Hate to jump on the bandwagon here, but at the very least, I can show that not only top tier clans are having a problem with this.

1. A player must be a member of their clan for the entire duration of the clan league. If they leave the clan for whatever reason, they must be substituted immediately. When creating a game, if a player is not in the clan they are representing, the CLOT will award a loss for that game.

This is, at best, irritating; at worst, malicious. Rather than penalize the clan automatically for something they have limited control over, the CLOT should suspend the game until a replacement can be chosen.

2. A player must play on their main account and not place an alt in another clan to sidestep these rules. A main account is defined as the account which has earned the most points earned in the last 30 days.

This I don't understand at all, and I have 2 major issues with it. 1st, as LeQuébécois_Benoit so helpfully outlined using my clan as an example, it creates moral dilemmas in skilled players preparing to leave non-elite clans (ex. Juggernauts). The 2nd issue, echoing what everyone else here is saying, is that you released this rule too late. And for this once, I'm going to make an exception to my normally respectful tone to the leaders of CL. Are you out of your fucking mind? I'm under the impression this is something you've put a lot of thought into, which means you were likely considering this at the very least while you were calling for template votes. But you wait to announce it until nearly a full week after template votes are closing, and almost halfway through the time you allotted to select rosters? And the only restitution is a pitiful week extension, when most clans are planning and considering their rosters months in advance? This is nothing short of unacceptable.

TL;DR: If you think this is the right course, that's your decision. But this should not take effect this season, you simply haven't given near enough notice.

As I understand it -

Rule 1 has already been posted right at the start of cl9 preparations. It's to stop a repeat of the Outlaws/101st debacle. With the new rule the players that left to join Outlaws would have to immediately quit playing for 101st.

I agree with this rule + I feel like this rule has been posted months ago.


Rule 2 is new, however. It will possibly put a wrench into 101st's plans for their lineup. Not sure, I'll have to ask them. But afaik there was no advance warning of this and it's annoying to announce rule changes that affect lineups when we've already put a bunch of effort into preparing our lineups. So, this rule should be postponed until next clan league.

Based on the responses so far, we can agree that this was short notice. So let's go ahead with CL9 as planned(without the rules stated yesterday).

• Any player present in a clan's roster must also be a member of that clan on the date of the submission deadline.
  
• If a player with accounts in 2 clans is enlisted by both clans, they will be removed from both clans' rosters. The player can clarify with the CL panel who they wish to play for.

However, we would like to start to this discussion surrounding alts/main and who should participate for a clan and hopefully have it in place before next season. To that effect, we'll invite everyone who has had something constructive to say, to a discussion.

Based on the responses so far, we can agree that this was short notice. So let's go ahead with CL9 as planned(without the rules stated yesterday).

I really appreciate, that the panel did recognize the posts here and had the courage to change this.

However, we would like to start to this discussion surrounding alts/main and who should participate for a clan and hopefully have it in place before next season. To that effect, we'll invite everyone who has had something constructive to say, to a discussion.

Personally I would not differ between alts and mains. There are way to many reason to not play with your main for example:
having main in a clan that does not participate in CL
beeing in your early day clan with your main and having your rl-friends over there, but want to play in CL for a more competetive clan
...

Good that I read this today, when decisions were redone.

I remember when Clan leaders voted for Templates and its Order they agreed to the rules to that Date.

So, You have made the right decision to redo it.
So the Deadline ist again 21st January?
The Main is the Account who played in CL8?

If so, please also Change the information at the Spreadsheet again.

PS: I would like to participate in the discussion to Mains/alts

AND if you really really really really have to Change rules like this, PLEASE do not only in a thread. Write PMs to both Clan leaders or write it in a Chat games in its entirety

If you write 'the Deadline for roster Lineup Submission is 1/21/2017'
And below that 'please See [Link to this thread]' like you did in the vote game
Then I only think that the information you have stated before can also be seen in this thread.
That was really close that I even read it. Wasnt really active in Threads the Last time.

But I am happy that the rules were changed to the previous.

Edited 1/14/2017 16:40:13

Question
If we have a low level member who wants to play, but are not high enough level, can they use another player's alt to play? (Oh, also taking about mains, the higher level alt would win on points etc. So we could claim it was a main' ey? Also, the alt would be member of the clan too, ofc.)

Also, what if the alt in question was another player's main?

Simplest is ofc to just say: No, you can't use an alt. But given that you can't really control alt use anyway, and levels =/= skills, well? Why not allow it?

PS, It is so nice to not have to answer hard questions :)

Edited 1/15/2017 06:13:16

Question
If we have a low level member who wants to play, but are not high enough level, can they use another player's alt to play?

Yes please! I totally approve of this question!
In our clan, we are currently massively levelling up two members to be able to join while I have a high level alt with a membership laying around that fulfills all the level requirements!

If we have a low level member who wants to play, but are not high enough level, can they use another player's alt to play?

You cannot use another player's alt to play.

However, we would like to start to this discussion surrounding alts/main and who should participate for a clan and hopefully have it in place before next season. To that effect, we'll invite everyone who has had something constructive to say, to a discussion.

I'll give my 2cts then.

So this rule along with the roster rule, means that clans are defined as 25 players that existed in a clan at the time the league started and can slowly atrophy over time with no new additions. I don't feel like that aligns with the definition of a true clan. I strongly feel this rule should be removed. It creates headaches for everyone.

But you re free to register 25 players to prevent a clan from being short of players any time, isnt that enough ? The beauty of this rules (and the no alt rules) makes the definition of a clan stronger, spot on for a "Clan" league, and benefits to "stronger" clans not only in skills but in "loyalty factor" which can now also be represented : the ones who manage to keep their members. Moreover, if a member quits the clan in a bad mood, he cant ruin the clan's results by playing bad purposely, as he has to be replaced.

having main in a clan that does not participate in CL
beeing in your early day clan with your main and having your rl-friends over there, but want to play in CL for a more competetive clan

It depends how we see and want to see clans and CL. For me its like a country at olympic games, which like CL have values like honour our flag, be loyal to it and represent it to the best you can. And members of not seeded countries can not partipate. Members who have fiends in another country can not play for that country. Solution for them would be to naturalise before Olympics start.

Edited 1/16/2017 14:21:06

I have the opinion that if statistician low leveled players did not manage to make it on time, we should allow an alt to be used by one of them. It would be a pity to lose a solid clan due to lack of level

Why not just create a kongregate account and reach the required level within a day?

Is the deadline for submitting a lineup still on January 21 or was it pushed back to January 28? I remember MotD wrote about this in his post before editing it out.

Thanks!

28th Jan is fine so as to avoid confusion.

do any clans want to practice some games (any of the templates, but I am looking specifically right now at Deadmans Rome) against FCC? PM me.

Just another reminder that the deadline for roster submission is 1/28/2017 00:00:00 UTC. Any clan which hasn't sent their roster will not be able to participate. If your clan leaders are away/inactive for any reason, make sure you have someone acting as backup.

Edited 1/26/2017 16:59:42