you might think it unfair, but thats the reality

What's reality?

That given the chance we'd cheat? If that was the case we'd already be in A this season.

Make a logic point on how its fair and ill agree with you, thats all im saying

it's obvious that the incentive structure gets screwed up if two clans so closely interlinked is in the same division. There is myriads of situations that could give rise to problems.... so in reality it's not a problem of cheating or collusion of any kind

Edited 11/24/2018 17:48:00

How close is too close though? Where do you draw the line. What if a clan has a close relationship with another but is not a "training clan"

Let's say clan A and B are not allied, but they are all good friends and enjoy seeing the other win. Both clans hate clan C though. And then there's clan D which no one has an opinion of, because no one really knows them.

Isn't A and B already messing up the "incentive structure"

its a line that has to be decided since there is obviously no objektive truth about it, even so its still a problem.... and even if you cant remove all thise problems you still can try to remove the worst ones

Edited 11/24/2018 18:06:57

In CL8, I was under the impression that Clan League was a clan event, and that discussing games or doing custom scenarios with clanmates to practice was ok. That's why I did what I did. I wouldn't have done it otherwise.

I belonged to two clans in CL8. I did not think it would be ok to look at the games or give specific advice to my other clan. After all, I wasn't playing for them that season. I see Apprentice the same way.

I have ties to a lot of clans besides my own. The risk exists anywhere. I think most players, including those that have saved from boots or discussed games with clanmates, would not be ok with interfering in the games of another clan.

If there are specific cases of one clan helping or manipulating another, they need to be brought forward. I am not aware of any.

Yeah, it's completely objective and unfair. Your making the assumption we wouldn't try hard enough against our friends, which (at least for me) is quite the opposite.

then why not have two teams from the same clan if they have enough players? well im sorry that i have hurt your feelings, but i would think that anyone will be more likely to throw a game if it was not important for the one clan but was for the other, if they talk with them regularly and are friends with them. That is normal human behavior, and perhaps you are an outlier, but that does not make it any less true

How do I know you won't do so to a clan you prefer, say ONE!, if it keeps Lynx from winning? It's not human nature.

its a line that has to be decided since there is obviously no objektive truth about it, even so its still a problem.... and even if you cant remove all thise problems you still can try to remove the worst ones

I want Outlaws banned from CL because they get butthurt over everything. This takes fun away from the game and in consequence messes up the CL structure. It's objektive truth.

I don't need to list out any factual arguments because it's obvious that's the right thing to do.

---

Alternatively, we could ONCE AGAIN try to draw the line? Which clans to limit? The ones that call themselves training clans? Fair enough, but then they should be allowed to play together the moment they stop doing that.

If you guys are unable to operate on facts and can't suggest a rule, there will be no rule. It's pretty simple.

why is everyone so upset all of a sudden? well you could say that there cant be formal agreement.... also that they cant have a promotion system, that would be quite easy to see if you actully did promote players from one to another specifik clan, and then you could have a % for that, and prehaps a ethics council that could judge in cases of doubt

Edited 11/24/2018 18:39:26

@cowboy
If you can't see the difference you may want to get your eye sight tested... Big difference in outlaws One! Relationship than 101st Lynx

Edit; arguing and taking personal shots is pointless and childish and doesn't help further the discussion at all

Edited 11/24/2018 18:47:43

You totally missed my point, tacky.

I'm saying given the position to ruin lynx's chance, by giving up a game against ONE (example), an outlaws player would likely to so. (More likely than an apps or 101st player would.)

Edited 11/24/2018 19:09:31

@everyone I mean honestly though what would stop a Master from helping apprentice to beat rivals in CL. How could we tell? Also doesn't help when clans like Lynx moves players like Joi back and forth. Also doesn't help when clans are filled with alts from another clan. For example it looks like Discovery is really loyal to FCC....

Discovery isn't loyal. FCC managers manage it completely.

Where there are cheaters, there are whistleblowers.

big boy

Edited 11/24/2018 20:19:56

To be honest this drama was so predictable it's morbidly enjoyable.
The punishments are exactly what the crowd wanted. The "cheaters" were found, and judgments were issued. Even if it was just vocal minority talking, it's what the people wanted, otherwise this ethics panel wouldn't exist at all.

The TJC thing is funny, because the clan pretty much dissolved late in CL9 (which is when all 'cheating' happened) and most of the players punished wouldn't even play CL11.

As for 101st-Apprentice... once again, so predictable it's funny. Back when Platinum was leader of 101st, and the clan played in division B, there didn't seem to be any talk about possible "dangers" coming from training and "teacher" clan possibly both in division A. But some time after the split happened, it suddenly became the main talking point from Platinum and some of (ex-)Outlaws? It's funny how the perspective changes. (And yes, I do think there is no real reason 101st and Lynx shouldn't be allowed in the same division)

Let's be honest, none of this talk is to make this competition better. It's all just to find the "guilty", or even imaginable possible future "guilty".

And at the end of the day... well, it really is just a flash game, so xD

Drama exists solely because people love drama. Not because there is anything remotely controversial about people who like each other competing against each other in a competition which also contains people they don't like.