@ Rento

Please let me out of your argument. I don't care about that seasonal game, but those other games are crystal clear cases.

I have never cheated or stalled and I was reading this. You did not mention me being clean. Please apologize.

Lynx (and scumbag rak) were explaining him how to get an advantage by stalling on the seasonal. Could be easily solved by telling him not to fuck over other people to gain something for himself.

@Farah: Just like after that CL11 case, I'm confident an ethics panel would rule me almost innocent in this matter.

I'm confident an ethics panel would rule me almost innocent

You're French, you're guilty.

I can't believe no one shot down my slippery slope argument yet...

I have little history with any of the commenters here, so I believe that I have no reason to be biased in favor of one side or the other.

And why should I care whether alex stalled his 12th game on 1v1 ladder or not? How would it help him? Whom would it hurt? You don't get ranked until 20 games.

If he actually won the other 8 games he could easily stall the "12th" game to end after 20 wins by just playing until elimination while taking his usual 3 day turns. Just because it's not one of his last 5 doesn't mean there's no potential benefit to stalling. I'm sure an intelligent person like yourself could have easily figured that out, but you choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit you argument. While I agree with the general consensus that "stalling" one turn for 3 days, as in the one example you addressed, is not too egregious, the other cases that you ignored are pretty clear cut. It is obvious that you guys really have no issue with the practice of stalling, and in fact encourage it as a valid strategy.

@Santa Claus
No one is saying that we should revoke wins or trophies based on stalling and other allowed but unethical behavior. Instead, it is something that should be frowned upon by the community. MoD here is doing just that - calling out a player and his clan for participating in this despicable practice.

Edited 11/11/2019 20:45:20

Based on the personal enjoyment of the drama created from stalling I'd have to say it is a very Gud thing indeed.

i'm clean too, that was rude of you rento for not mentioning me

DrApe, like I said, I don't care about stalling unimportant ladder games just like I don't care about stalling random auto games. You're saying he could've stalled until elimination. Did he stall until elimination? No.

We're getting deeper and deeper into the nonsense territory, with "he could have stalled until elimination even though he didnt".

You're saying he could've stalled until elimination. Did he stall until elimination? No.

No, he did not, simply because he was losing all his other games as well. He only surrendered at the time he did because there was no longer a chance at getting first. I'm quite certain that if he was winning his other games he would have stalled out until elimination to get his fake trophy. A failed attempt to manipulate his ladder rank is no less abominable than a successful one.

This is getting ridiculous. From 1 turn stalling to "maybe he intended to stall to 1st". People are going crazy.

I'm so happy that no rules against stalling were implemented.

I’d like to welcome Rento back! This thread just wasn’t the same without Big Boy.

Rento it isn't important how many spam threads a spammer creates since it's annoying wheter it's one page or 50 pages. Same goes for stalling.

I doubt you'd go and say ''come on guys it were only 50 empty threads, are you seriously claiming it's bad? I see no rule against it''

I totally dislike intentional stalling.

Having said this, when we move to the ethic ground, I do not feel like I can judge the ethic / moral of a person that genuinely regards stalling as a strategic element and I doubt even the vast consensus of the community can.

We are fine until we regard stalling as unfair on the basis of common sense or community consensus, still condemning a staller is something different.

Assuming it is possible to read the intentions, I would say that:
A) If the staller knows he is doing something unfair, this is condemnable on the ethic ground.
B) If the staller regards stalling as part of the game, this is not condemnable on the ethic ground.

I tend to regard closer to B, grey areas, the like the person that has not a clear vision about what is fair and what is not. E.g. the person that thinks "many players stall the ladder. Hence I feel I should protect myself and use this weapon too".

So, well, I do not use stalling myself, I hate it, I regard it as unfair, but I cannot judge as unfair whoever uses it in good faith...

Hergul what if people keep stalling after you explain the consequences of stalling and the ladder mechanics to them, as i did to jojo?

I hate stalling, unless it is a game where surrenders have to be accepted by the other players.

@Hergul

Good point regarding that some players considering stalling part of the game and therefore those players are just playing the game to their interpretation. However, I would argue that stalling cannot be ethical because it fails the universal law test. If everyone were to stall out a loss, then every seasonal game could end in a force-finish. I assume everyone agrees that this is not the situation we want. Therefore the maxim of stalling being a valid strategy cannot be an ethical one.

rento, i still want my apology

@mod
you explained and he can keep thinking his way, because of reasons the like I said.
E.g. one can think that as other players do it, then you are just protecting your fair interest in not being penalized vs whoever use stalling.

@DrApe
I am not sure I get your general principle, but I feel there is in any case another problem here. There seems not to be a proper enforcing of the rules against taking advantage of the forced finish.
When a rule is not enforced and people can break it unpunished, then honest people can feel legitimately they can break the rules as well, just not to be penalised vs who breaks it unpunished.

Assume a scenario where 90% do not pay taxes and are not punished. Is it moral that I pay for all? or is it immoral if I do not pay?
When rules are not enforced we enter imho into grey areas.

So, ideally there should be a rule that forbids stalling and proper enforcing of it. On the contrary we can just remain in the field of opinions about what is fair and what is not.

I watched those 1v1 ladder alexclusive games and if this isn't stalling then I don't know what is. At least three 2-3 day turns after a clear point when game is unsalvageable, after turns that were played quicker than that. In multiple games, and clearly dependent on state of the game, not on a date. And it's not that those are hard turns, just complete losses. Sorry, but I don't buy the "1 turn stalling" thing.
P.S. Neither I ever stalled nor am I interested in witch hunting, I just point out stuff.

Edited 11/12/2019 00:21:34