<< Back to Warzone Idle Forum   Search

Posts 1 - 20 of 152   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  Next >>   
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-08-31 09:31:22

functor
Level 56
Report
The 5.13 merc-based strategy has two characteristic features:
* majority of the armies comes from mercs;
* majority of the money comes from crafting.

The 5.14 market-based strategy I have in mind has three features:
(1) majority of the armies comes from mercs;
(2) the startup capital comes from SAC + FC, SAC + clan request, or crafting;
(3) the majority of the money comes from cashing in the 5.14 market (explained by me in the following thread).
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/569600-comparison-markets-513-514

As soon as we reach the first market, the level is pretty much finished.

Below are some key (phase 1, 2, 3) advancements for this strategy.
* Joint Strike: 25%
* Additional Mercenaries: at least 100%, ideally 150%.
* Mercernary Discount: 50%
* Increased Alloy Sell Values: 100%

Some good (phase 1, 2, 3) advancements.
* Increased Cache Money: 100%
* Statistics: 1
* Increased Cache Resources: 100%
* Mercenary Camp Visibility: 50
* Market Visibility: 9

Edit: Market Raid is not needed for this strategy.

Edit: Add recommended advancements.

Edited 10/14/2021 20:27:12
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-08-31 09:35:29


Shin
Level 59
Report
please do not reveal this :(
it's my life support
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-08-31 12:22:39

Mathematician 
Level 62
Report
Nooooooooo don't attract Fizzer's attention to this.
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-08-31 16:15:35


TheGreatLeon 
Level 61
Report
Has anyone made a spreadsheet for market raid bottlenecks in Google sheets? This would be very useful to determine what the limiting factor is between mine speed / smelting speed / crafting speed before committing to a 10x market raid.

I’m envisioning a simple tool where you plug in mine income, recipe info, market info and it outputs what is limiting so you know which market to use and which mine(s) to upgrade or supercharge
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-01 03:08:33

Tulsi 2020 
Level 62
Report
"Nooooooooo don't attract Fizzer's attention to this." -Mathematician

This is the intended behaver, unlock phase 4 and you will notice that Fizzer has gone so far as to automate the process.
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-03 17:05:28

functor
Level 56
Report
I have done a proof of concept run, and I hope that it can give you some flavor of a typical run under this market-based strategy. My finishing stats can be found in the following screenshot.

https://imgur.com/a/KkCLFY6

I have used 4 Time Warps. So, the session time is 8 hours.

I did a scout run before this, and I do not recommend you to try it until you have better advancements and artifacts.

# Level

Warzone 5.14.0.6 on revision 17 Africa.

# Advancements

I have reset my advancements for this run. Below are my current advancements, which cost 10,008 AP.

--- Phase 1 ---
Increased Army Camp Production : 100%
Increased Cache Money          : 100%
Joint Strike                   :  25%
Additional Mercenaries         : 100%
Statistics                     :    1
--- Phase 2 ---
Mercenary Discount             :  50%


# Artifacts

The following 3 artifacts are always equipped in this run. No artifacts swapping at all.

* Rare Hospital Boost     :  +8% hospital saving
* Rare Item Values        : +16% item values
* Rare Mercenary Discount :  -8% merc cost


# Clan rewards

I have 3 clan rewards enabled. They should be easy enough for anyone in a clan to get. A total of 3 + 5 + 7 = 15 wins in CW are required.

1 territory   reward : Alloy sell values +10%.
2 territories reward : Mercenaries cost -10%.
3 territories reward : Item values +10%.


# Other modifiers

Ad Bonus     : +20% Crafter Speed.
Speed Reward : +30% Copper production.


# Restrictions

Clan Request : Not allowed.
Powers       : Only Time Warps are allowed.
Techs        : No techs in the first group (army) and second group (mine).
Mines        : It is not allowed to sell ores.
Smelters     : Can only smelt Copper Bar.
Crafters     : It is not allowed to sell crafted items except Copper Wire.


# The run

The time below has already taken Time Warp into consideration.

Time  | Target                             | Location                      | Note
----- | ---------------------------------- | ----------------------------- | --------------------------
00:00 | Start                              |                               |
00:15 | Army Camp: Vindertion              | Territory: Kimiti             | 2nd army camp
01:15 | Crafter                            | Territory: Al Kamlin          | 1st crafter
01:17 | Hospital                           | Territory: Barh Signaka       |
01:25 | Smelter                            | Territory: Grande Sido        |
01:35 | Army Camp: Vablow                  | Territory: Pantelleria Island | 3rd army camp
02:21 | Market: Belluminkling              | Territory: Sidi Bel Abbes     | 1st market
02:25 | Cash in                            |                               | Money: 580M
02:26 | Market: Mixtup                     | Territory: Markounda          | 2nd market
02:29 | Cash in                            |                               | Money: 12.6B
02:30 | Market: Twisometo                  | Territory: Djibouti           | 3rd market
02:35 | Cash in                            |                               | Money: 52.8B
02:35 | Market: Cleakuwaked                | Territory: Taleex             | 4th market
02:38 | Cash in                            |                               | Money: 154B
02:41 | Hospital                           | Territory: Kebbi              |
02:42 | Hospital                           | Territory: Boutilimit         |
02:43 | Hospital                           | Territory: Louga              |
02:43 | Hospital                           | Territory: Boké               |
02:44 | Market: Bationare                  | Bonus: Guinea                 | 5th market
02:47 | Cash in                            |                               | Money: 320B
02:49 | Hospital                           | Territory: Caxito             |
02:51 | Hospital                           | Territory: Katete             |
02:53 | Hospital                           | Territory: Kibaya             |
02:54 | Hospital                           | Territory: Wa                 |
02:55 | Hospital                           | Territory: Haut-Nyong         |
02:56 | Hospital                           | Territory: Bizerte            |
02:56 | Hospital                           | Territory: Abyei Area         |
02:58 | Market: Miscoutly                  | Territory: Burgersdorp        | 6th market
03:00 | Cash in                            |                               | Money: 547B
03:00 | Start upgrading all hospitals      |                               |
03:00 | Recipe: Nail                       | Territory: Katsina            | Needed for Tech
03:00 | Crafters x 4 work on Nail          |                               |
03:00 | Start Time Warp                    |                               | 1st Time Warp
04:00 | End Time Warp                      |                               |
04:00 | Start Time Warp                    |                               | 2nd Time Warp
05:00 | End Time Warp                      |                               |
05:04 | Tech: Break a few shins            |                               | Enough money for the rest
05:06 | Recipe: Glass                      | Territory: Ceel Dheer         | Needed for Tech
05:06 | Crafters x 4 work on Glass         |                               |
05:09 | Hospital                           | Territory: Daniëlskuil        | Forgot to get it before
05:10 | Start upgrading first 11 hospitals |                               |
05:10 | Start Time Warp                    |                               | 3rd Time Warp
06:10 | End Time Warp                      |                               |
06:10 | Start Time Warp                    |                               | 4th Time Warp
07:10 | End Time Warp                      |                               |
07:10 | Wait for Glass x 3                 |                               | Caused by a mistake
07:42 | Tech: Hire Actual Doctors          |                               |
07:47 | Market: Paidittinicked             | Bonus: Angola                 | 7th market
07:47 | Cash in                            |                               | Unnecessary
07:47 | Garbage time                       |                               | Lots of clicking
07:57 | End                                |                               |


# Analysis

The run time consists of:
(1) about 2.5 hours before the first market,
(2) about 1 hour hunting for markets and hospitals,
(3) 2 hours upgrading hospitals from level 1 to level 2,
(4) 2 hours upgrading hospitals from level 2 to level 3,
(5) about 0.5 hour waiting for Glass x 3.

(1) can be reduced by using SAC + FC or SAC + Clan Request at the beginning.
(2) can be reduced by getting familiar with this strategy.
(3) seems to be necessary for pre-ascension players.
(4) might be skipped, considering that I have 27B armies left at the end.
(5) is purely my mistake. I should have used the first Time Warp for (3), swapped the recipe to Glass, and then started the second Time Warp for (3).

Phase 4 players might be able to finish this level in 1 hour following this strategy.

Edited 9/4/2021 04:26:04
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-03 18:56:48

Sefer
Level 30
Report
Very nice, functor. Well done.

When you say that Phase 4 players could finish in an hour, is that because you don't think hospitals don't need to be upgraded at some point (maxed Better Hospitals/Increased Cache Armies/Additional Mercenaries) or is this still using 4 time warps to get through hospital upgrade periods in that time?

How do you expect this to scale? If a level has twice as many territories, does it take twice as long or do you think it will ramp up more? Is clicking on territories the main limiting time factor or just how long it takes to reach the first market (and, depending on your answer to the first question, time to upgrade hospitals)?

It does seem like at some point the time it takes to finish a level will entirely be based on how much time someone has to devote to it. Do you think there's any way to significantly automate this strategy, using the various auto upgrades? Or does it rely too much on sniping markets/hospitals/merc camps to ever be automated? Is there any combination of auto upgrades you think would be useful to run during times you don't want to focus on the game, or is the only real use of downtime to build up armies/crafted items to sell? As I run out of advancements that provide static bonuses I've been thinking about getting Simultaneous Levels, but it doesn't seem all that worth it if the time it takes to finish a level is basically the time I have to focus on it, because that time is limited. I guess the main benefit may just be building up armies early on without having to wait- running Europe and Triskelion simultaneously, focusing on one, and then by the time you start the other probably having the resources to reach that first market.
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-03 19:13:12


krinid 
Level 63
Report
Great info functor, thanks for helping the cause!

@Shin, Math, Tulsi
This is what Tulsi was referring to:

[Phase 4]
Auto-Market
Automatically purchases from a market as long as the items purchased cost less than they would sell for. Runs once every 120 minutes. Upgradable to 10 minutes in -10 increments. Can be enabled or disabled at will.

What's confusing is ... what item from the market will it do this to? Alloys and items will provide different profit margins based on your artifacts & advancements.

But essentially Auto-Market combined w/Auto-Conquer, Auto-Sell, Increased Idle Time, Auto-Purchase Mercenaries, Increased Army Camp Production, Auto-Upgrade Army Camps, Mercenary Discount, Additional Mercenaries make it possible to actually clear a level by just enabling AQ and walking away. Joint Strike is of course assumed. Eventually the level will get cleared, though it'll take longer than usual.

To increase efficacy/clear time, add Adv's like Increased Cache Armies, Auto-Upgrade Hospitals, Better Hospitals, Auto-Purchase Techs, Increased Cache Money, Army Camp Discounts, Increased Draft Sizes, Increased Item Sell Values.

Edited 9/3/2021 19:28:00
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-03 20:56:30

functor
Level 56
Report
@Sefer

I will answer your questions in multiple replies. This one is about the level of hospitals a Phase 4 player would need, regardless the strategy.

Let us consider Phase 4 players with maxed Better Hospitals/Increased Cache Armies/Additional Mercenaries, and we assume that the player has no artifacts and no techs.

I will divide the late levels into 3 classes:
(A) Fort Harbor to Netherlands;
(B) China to Afro-Eurasia Gargantuan;
(C) Triskelion to Europe Huge.

Below are my estimate on the levels of hospitals needed in ideal conditions.

       | A | B | C
Rev 16 | 1 | 1 | 1
Rev 17 | 1 | 1 | 2
Rev 18 | 2 | 2 | 2


The ideal condition may not always be met, and we all make mistakes. In practice, I would recommend the following hospital levels for the players do not want to pay attention to every single action.

       | A | B | C
Rev 16 | 1 | 1 | 2
Rev 17 | 1 | 2 | 2
Rev 18 | 2 | 2 | 3


Now, back to your original question.

> When you say that Phase 4 players could finish in an hour, is that because you don't think hospitals don't need to be upgraded at some point (maxed Better Hospitals/Increased Cache Armies/Additional Mercenaries) or is this still using 4 time warps to get through hospital upgrade periods in that time?

Below is what I expect a Phase 4 player on revision 17 Africa to do.
* 0 - 10 min: Reach the first market.
* 10 - 20 min: Get all markets, cash in, get all hospitals.
* 20 - 40 min: Clear the level (auto-conquer might help).
No artifacts/upgrades/techs needed.

I do not have enough AP to test myself. So, please take it with a grain of salt.

Edited 9/3/2021 21:07:22
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 00:53:02


Master Jz 
Level 62
Report
I was able to beat most regular levels without upgrading anything but the first 1-4 hospitals (the ones that don't count for much). I had 85% extra mercenaries and basically everything important from Phase 4 already maxed. I did have to rely on auto-drafts to finish a lot of them, but it was faster than waiting 2 hours.
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 01:29:52

Mathematician 
Level 62
Report
@krinid, Tulsi

I unlocked phase 4 almost 3 weeks ago. I'm aware of auto-market. I wasn't suggesting it's a bug. I was referring to the observation that Fizzer tends to nerf things that goes too well, for example nerfing merc camps when our merc-based strategy goes too well.

My Increased Cache Armies is only at 50% atm so in later levels I want to upgrade hospitals once to make sure that I don't run out of merc or money. Basically after capturing the first market it's pretty much a 2 hour wait before I finish the level.

But my actual times are far from that because of real life. I'm not a full-time gamer and my auto-advancement isn't that far yet. And also often there're items not available in markets for important merc/cache techs and I need to make them myself. I may not actually need those techs but I didn't have time to do precise calculations for each level yet so I just do it the safe way:
-get first market
-get all markets and all hospitals
-upgrade hospitals once and get all merc techs and the 50% cache tech
-clear the level
Some of these steps are probably not needed but doing all these step will always safely guarantee a reasonable level time for me.
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 01:34:07

Mathematician 
Level 62
Report
I'm planning to write a guide for each level actually, but it'll take at least some months because I have stuff to do in real life as well, and probably my strategy is far from optimal and only fit for people with a similar advancement setup as I do. The only guide I've finished so far is Hardened Far Land:

Overview:
The markets give you everything you need, except for nails.
The nail receipe is a bonus.

Strategy:
Go straight towards the first market at Bethesda Path.
Using that market, take all markets and hospitals and unlock all merc techs and hospital cost techs and take the nail receipe.
Upgrade all hospitals at the same time while crafting nails.
Wait for 2 hours.
Unlock the cache tech and complete the map.
There is no need to keep switching artifacts for caches. The markets give way more than needed for buying enough merc.
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 03:05:08

functor
Level 56
Report
@Sefer

Now, let me analyze how scalable this strategy is and how to automate this strategy. Note that if we want to automate the process, then we cannot let the money go to where it should not go, such as army camps after reaching the first market.

# Reaching the first market

Manual: About 10 minutes.

Automatic: Auto-Conquer + Auto-Upgrade Army Camps.

Equip Army Camp Boost, Bonus Money Boost, Territory Money Boost. No crafting needed.

# Getting all markets and all hospitals

Manual: About 10 minutes.

Automatic: I do not think it is possible.

Equip Hospital Boost, Item Values, Mercenary Discount.

# Upgrading hospitals

Manual: 10 seconds followed by 2 hours waiting if upgrade is needed, and 0 otherwise.

Automatic: Auto-Upgrade Hospitals.

# Getting techs

This step can be skipped entirely.

# Clearing the level

Manual: 10 minutes constant clicking.

Automatic: Auto-Conquer + Auto-Purchase Mercenaries, if Auto-Conquer is smart enough.

Equip Hospital Boost, Mercenary Discount.

Edit: Add artifact choice.

Edited 9/4/2021 05:52:25
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 06:20:07

functor
Level 56
Report
@Sefer

> It does seem like at some point the time it takes to finish a level will entirely be based on how much time someone has to devote to it.

For players with enough AP and want to have a real life, this market-based strategy basically means 10 minutes active time (getting markets and hospitals) in exchange of a level finish. It is up to the players to decide how many levels they want to do in a day.

@krinid

> But essentially Auto-Market combined w/Auto-Conquer, Auto-Sell, Increased Idle Time, Auto-Purchase Mercenaries, Increased Army Camp Production, Auto-Upgrade Army Camps, Mercenary Discount, Additional Mercenaries make it possible to actually clear a level by just enabling AQ and walking away.

Combining Auto-Market and Auto-Upgrade Army Camps may not be a good idea. Army camp may absorb too much money, and there may not be enough left for mercs.

@Master Jz

> I was able to beat most regular levels without upgrading anything but the first 1-4 hospitals (the ones that don't count for much).

In terms of relative merc amount, the two worst regular levels in my opinion are Final Earth and Drakemor's World.

@Mathematician

> I may not actually need those techs but I didn't have time to do precise calculations for each level yet so I just do it the safe way

> I'm planning to write a guide for each level actually, but it'll take at least some months because I have stuff to do in real life as well, and probably my strategy is far from optimal and only fit for people with a similar advancement setup as I do.

I can provide some raw data if you need some.
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 13:38:15

Mathematician 
Level 62
Report
@functor

Oh yea raw data will help me a lot. Thanks.

Maybe I can use those raw data to plan a concept run like you did, but as a phase 4 player, and then share the results here.
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 20:32:12


krinid 
Level 63
Report
Yes pls RE: Raw Data. We started doing a little bit in some threads but it dropped off.

@Math,
Yes, it is almost certain that at some point, anything effective will get nerfed. (; It's almost like it's a challenge for us to find efficient ways of playing a game that's constantly changing.

Edited 9/4/2021 21:43:18
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 22:06:23

Mathematician 
Level 62
Report
Inspired by functor's Africa concept run, I just finished a focused Africa run myself as a phase 4 player.
Rules: No powers, no active artifacts, no clan requests.

functor suggested

Below is what I expect a Phase 4 player on revision 17 Africa to do.
* 0 - 10 min: Reach the first market.
* 10 - 20 min: Get all markets, cash in, get all hospitals.
* 20 - 40 min: Clear the level (auto-conquer might help).
No artifacts/upgrades/techs needed.


Nope I didn't do that well. The time I used was 2 hours 15 minutes. It took me 45 minutes of babysitting the level to reach the first market, not 10 minutes.

If I have more AP and get a higher level of Increased Cache Armies and Additional Mercenaries, I think I can skip the metal pipe crafting part and the waiting for drafts part and reduce the level time further to around 1 hour. I don't see a way to significantly reduce the time I need to reach the first market though.

Details are in my next reply.
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 22:13:19

Mathematician 
Level 62
Report
Africa run. App version v5.14.1.2
Rules: No power, no active artifacts, no clan requests
Artifacts, techs, upgrades, ads are allowed

Total time: 2 hours 15 minutes

0:00 start level
0:01 ad for +30% army production
0:09 Kimiti army camp
0:14 Barh Signaka Hospital
0:24 Pantelleria Island army camp
0:44 Unlock Drafting tech
0:45 Sidi Bel Abbes market
0:48 Markounda market
0:49 Djibouti market
0:50 Taleex market
0:51 Kebbi hospital
0:51 Wa hospital
0:52 Boutilimit hospital
0:53 Louga hospital
0:55 unlock all merc tech, alloy sell value tech
0:56 Boke hospital
0:57 Guinea bonus market
0:59 Abyei Area hospital
0:59 Haut-Nyong hospital
1:01 Kibaya hospital
1:02 Burgersdorp market
1:03 unlock medical refinement tech
1:04 Danielskull hospital
1:05 obtained metal pipe recipe at Ese, starts crafting (for the 50% cache tech)
1:10 obtained all 7 crafters for metal pipes
1:12 Katete hospital
1:12 Caxito hospital
1:13 Bizerte hospital
1:14 unlock craft dupe tech
1:14 starts spam clicking non-cache territories while waiting for metal pipes
1:38 all merc purchased, 269B money left
1:40 unlock Mandatory Draft tech and upgrade army camps
1:49 finished crafting metal pipes, unlock +50% cache tech
1:50 Angola bonus market
1:52 runs out of army and army caches. Need to wait for drafts
1:52 unlock Enforce Mandatory Draft
1:55 unlock 2nd army camp cost tech, starts upgrading army camps again
1:57 just sit there and wait for drafts...29B armies left on the map
2:15 level completed

No clan war effects used

Advancements:
Phase 1
Increased Army Camp Production 430%
Increased Copper Production 20%
Increased Cache Money 100%
Joint Strike 25%
Increased Ore Sell Value 100%
Discounted Mine Upgrades 25%
Increased Smelters Speed 50%
Additional Mercenaries 130%
Statistics 4
Increased Idle Time 420

Phase 2
Auto-Conquer 5%
Increased Cache Resources 100%
Army Camp Discounts 30%
Mercenary Discount 50%
Increased Alloy Sell Values 100%
Increased Draft Sizes 300%
Auto-Upgrade Army Camps 5%
Increased Crafters Speed 50%
Increased AP 25%

Phase 3
Can Skip Levels 1
Mercenary Camp Visibility 50
Increased Money from Bonuses 100%
Increased Item Sell Values 80%
Market Visibility 15

Phase 4
Better Hospitals 50%
Auto-Draft 0
Faster Digging 25%
Increased Cache Armies 60%
Simultaneous Levels 2

Artifacts:

Main starting phase artifacts:
Epic Army Camp Boost
Epic Territory Money Boost
Legendary Bonus Money Boost

Used a little bit during starting phase:
Rare Mine Boost
Rare Army Cache Boost
Rare Money Cache Boost
Rare Resources Cache Boost
Rare Army Camp Discount
Rare Tech Discount

During spam clicking:
Rare Hospital Boost
Rare Army Cache Boost
Rare Cache Boost

During metal pipe wait:
Rare Speedy Crafters
Uncommon Craft Double
Rare Hospital Boost

Ends with:
Epic Army Camp Boost
Rare Draft Boost
Rare Hospital Boost

Other swap ins used that haven't been mentioned:
Rare Alloy Values
Rare Merc Discount
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-04 22:26:36

Mathematician 
Level 62
Report
Finishing stat: https://imgur.com/a/0gEk7Wt
5.14 market-based strategy: 2021-09-05 00:13:08

Sefer
Level 30
Report
I made a stab at it, without using any powers, upgrading any hospitals, or buying any techs I couldn't get from markets (so no cache boost or second hospital boost)- and I ran out of armies with 72 territories left at an hour and a half. Dumped all my money into army camps to increase my draft size and my next draft gave me what I needed to finish, at 1:37. I got interrupted part way through so I might have been able to shave a little off of that (especially if I just dumped a bunch into camps earlier to get more drafts, I'm sure there was a ton left in my pool). Took me about 25 minutes to reach the first market.
Posts 1 - 20 of 152   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  Next >>