Go on with your “dark side”. Will be funny to see you banned for a finally proven cheating. Oh, and be careful, my envious friend, don't forget to turn on your ultimate skill or you might risk becoming a lamb by yourself.

How can you prove it? How can you have the link of a game of myself vs my alts? If a moderator could do it this discussion would have ended with a single message of him showing that Ozijs has not cheated but this is just not happening.

Edited 9/29/2021 17:09:26

Guys its pointless to argue with Ercole, so just let him keep his current perceptions and report Ozijs. Quite sure Ercole will be warned for false accusation without a proof and would learn on his own to stop making pointless forums like

this has turned into a cringefest from both sides

Edited 9/29/2021 15:31:48

thread is dumb why would you accuse rene of something with no proof? immediately everything you say has 0 value...

there are lots of players who play themself on qm. its sad. nothing else to say ^.^

jealousy is not a color that suits you well!

I like how knyte linked a game of me beating up ozijs big time, lol

that being said, this thread is stupid

Yes I am jealous and dumb while he is wonderful and that leaderboard is wonderful too.

....

My main mistake is trying to find a sense in this game mechanics or ask for opinions here, think I should just quit as kratt did to make all more happy.

Renè just exploited the game mechanics, he played a single temp without finding real opponents and he is on top with 3000 points having a win rate of 66% and an actual skill of no more than 800-900 in the most played temps. I think that sucks a lot too, not as Ozijs' infinite accounts but it is always a weird thing to see.

Edited 9/29/2021 17:00:19

Renè just exploited the game mechanics

Wait til you hear about the 1 v 1 Ladder

You might like the MTL, Ercole. Picking templates like this is not possible there, you can only veto a couple.

I can comment without the message showing on global chat, interesting

i am the god of SE

if Ozijs wishes to dispute that he's welcome to challenge me

Multi-attack Split-Mode Commander Cards! is technically also a SE template. Challenge Efra in that.

Edited 9/29/2021 22:08:28

Wait til you hear about the 1 v 1 Ladder.

Why do you think I have almost not played at all the ladders?

I am starting to think you are reading this thread only partially or even lack a proper education, if you still don't understand what is wrong with your accusations.

No I really do not get what is wrong with my accusations: the abuse of multi accounts is against ToS and he is clearly abusing of his multi accounts. I cannot prove what it seems clear even to a blind but not to you, still you can't say he is using his 5 accounts in a appropriate way (or are you saying even that?). You are just insulting me instead of him, calling him god or other shit like that and telling me that I am dumb, stupid and jealous. Now you say even that I "lack a proper education".

Edited 9/30/2021 19:52:05

@Quicksilver, other way around, if you wish to be the "Se god" then you have to challenge Ozi. Ozi has proven hes top 3 many times, i personally believe Beep Beep is better for reasons of personal experience, but Ozi is certainly top 3.

@Ercole: The concrete rule around multi-accounting (from https://www.warzone.com/wiki/Rules) is

You shall not operate more than one Warzone account that participates in the same game, tournament, ladder, clan war, or in any way gives you an advantage or gives you points or coins.

It deliberately excludes Quickmatch. This site's multi-accounting restrictions are pretty lax in practice, although the Terms of Service restrictions (https://www.warzone.com/TermsOfService) prohibit multiple accounts entirely:

I. Terms
"Accounts" in this document refer to a User who registers with Warzone.com, LLC. to obtain permission to access certain site features.
"User(s)" in this document refer to a person or persons who have visited any Web Site owned by Warzone.com, LLC or used any app owned by Warzone.com, LLC.
...
XVI. Online Conduct and Abuse
...Unacceptable uses and behavior that is deemed unacceptable include, without limitation: ... (ix) opening and/or using multiple Accounts;

As far as practical enforcement goes, the narrow limitations in the Rules seem to supersede the stricter Terms of Service (which makes sense, since Terms of Service tend to be broad).

you can't say he is using his 5 accounts in a appropriate way (or are you saying even that?)

My understanding of this site's enforcement policy is that they presume you're using alts appropriately absent compelling evidence to the contrary. Players themselves do not have to prove that they are using their accounts appropriately unless there is evidence of inappropriate use (beyond simply having multiple accounts).

If you believe Ozijs has violated the Rules (or the Terms of Service), you should report him with the evidence (https://www.warzone.com/Report?p=20114369969). The moderators and site admins likely have access to whatever data would be needed to check if Ozi has played himself on any of his other accounts. Absent a link to a game where Ozijs played himself in QM, non-moderators have no practical means of determining whether he has cheated in Quickmatch. This discussion can only realistically be pursued by moderators at this point. As you've noticed, the community (of non-moderators) has so little to contribute that much of this thread has simply collapsed into insults and circular discussion.

Operating multiple accounts in Quickmatch is definitely not against the rules in and of itself, since the moderators know I have ~20 accounts with QM activity (for leveling up; all but 1 of those accounts is retired) and so far have not banned any for QM reasons. You can, however, get in trouble for voting from multiple QM accounts and presumably for playing yourself in QM.

Edited 9/30/2021 19:56:36

If you believe Ozijs has violated the Rules (or the Terms of Service), you should report him with the evidence (https://www.warzone.com/Report?p=20114369969). The moderators and site admins likely have access to whatever data would be needed to check if Ozi has played himself on any of his other accounts.

As I have wrote already I do not have any evidence of that, I am saying that there are a huge amount of ways in which you can game the system of this site using multi accounts in ways not predicted by the rules and he has done it for sure, he is a strong player but he is "undisputed" because he plays only with alts not letting anyone dispute his main and killing everyone else's rating with "low" rated alts if you want another accuse against him that is not the scouting.

If you are saying you have checked him and he's not feeding directly his main, I don't see how a report could be useful since his "cheats" are not against the current rules.

Still I think he his a cheater and he should not be allowed to play with 5 accounts in the same competition, but I am a small minorance it seems.

Edited 9/30/2021 20:05:52

lol clearly you know nothing about Ozi and his achievements, the whole QM thing is one of his minor ones. That's hardly one of the reasons he's considered a top ever se player.

Absent a link to a game where Ozijs played himself in QM, non-moderators have no practical means of determining whether he has cheated in Quickmatch. This discussion can only realistically be pursued by moderators at this point.

As a mod i cant see anything with regards to past games, so unless an actual game is linked in/with the report, it will probably get ignored. Maybe the admins that give the final verdict can see some more, but I doubt they have a lot of extra tools to see all common games between players X and Y.

EDIT: per JK, mods can't check games like this. Then I see two avenues: using the query game API to find QM games since Ozijs joined the site with his 2nd account and seeing if any of them have both Ozijs and one of his alts (this is doable by any Member, but impractical); or escalating to an admin (or Fizzer) who might have the capability to investigate.

Honestly, if the query game API approach would mollify your concerns, I could do that over the weekend...

---

TL;DR: Quickmatch is not meant to be taken seriously as a competition. Its only purpose is to get you a quick match.

Well, you could still file a report so the mods can (presumably) check Ozijs (and his alts') game logs to see if he's ever played himself on Quickmatch. That's what I would do I if I were in your place and had those suspicions.

I am saying that there are a huge amount of ways in which you can game the system of this site using multi accounts in ways not predicted by the rules

Yes, there's a balance involved. If you look at the other online turn-based Risk-like mulitplayer game sites, you'll notice that they pick the opposite presumption: Conquer Club/etc. ban players for multi-accounting, even without any gaming of the system. That creates its own set of frustrations (see: https://www.reddit.com/r/conquerclub/comments/a042i8/very_unwelcoming/). I, for one, appreciate Warzone's permissive alt policy, because the frustration of the other approach is much worse than the cost of low-profile gaming of the system. It's honestly very hard to meaningfully impact the outcome of a competitive event through detectable multi-account use, especially since competitive events are small enough to enforce alt policies. (If you join the MTL on an alt, you'll stick out.)

killing everyone else's rating with "low" rated alts

This is inevitable if you play QM with multiple accounts. Although honestly the impact of this sort of stuff is negligible relative to normal fluctuations in QM rating (if you look at the top 50 SEAD/SE1W QM rated players, you'll notice the active ones have ratings change by dozens of points daily).

The end-game is just that no one who plays seriously takes QM ratings seriously. But that's negligible, because QM ratings- like Min34 pointed out- aren't skill ratings at all anyway, due to the modifications QM applies on top of the TrueSkill rating system it uses.

Ozijs reputation as a top SE player does not come from his QM rating, just as Rene Descartes is not considered among the best players on the site in spite of his astronomical QM rating. QM rating leaderboards are nearly meaningless already.

Still I think he his a cheater and he should not be allowed to play with 5 accounts in the same competition, but I am a small minorance it seems.

This difference of opinion stems from the rest of us not viewing Quickmatch as a competition in the first place. Quickmatch is just a casual way to get a quick match, nothing more. If you want ratings/rankings with competitive meaning, you need to get them from the ladders, Clan League results, and P/R leagues.

Edited 9/30/2021 20:23:50

No I really do not get what is wrong with my accusations: the abuse of multi accounts is against ToS and he is clearly abusing of his multi accounts. I cannot prove what it seems clear even to a blind but not to you, still you can't say he is using his 5 accounts in a appropriate way (or are you saying even that?).

I can't speak for everyone else, but what I am telling you is:

(1) You haven't made a clear request here. You just accused someone of cheating. Let's hypothetically say he is cheating and we can prove it. Then what? Are you asking for him to be banned on all accounts? Or just his alts? Or just his main? To forcibly lower his ranking(s)? Raise your ranking? Ban him from playing QM? What are you actually asking to be done?

(2) You also haven't given any method to prove or clear the accusation you've lodged against him. What would constitute clear proof that he is not cheating? What evidence is required for you to concede that he isn't cheating?

(3) You aren't really being consistent even with your own message. In the text quoted above, you say "he is clearly abusing of his multi accounts", but then immediately afterward say " I cannot prove what it seems clear". So you say it's "clear abuse" but then say you "can't prove it" while using the word "seem". So you think it's somewhat clear but can't prove it. To the rest of us, it's not even clear. If you can't make it clear, you need to stand down. It's as simple as that. What you're doing is accusing some guy walking down the street outside of a supermarket of stealing because he is eating a candy bar that the supermarket sells b/c they are missing a box of candy bars from inventory. Is there footage of him inside the store stealing the candy bar? Did you at least see him steal it yourself? Any evidence whatsoever? If not, you can't just accuse some who might in some specific situation explain the circumstances as you see them. Just b/c you can't explain how the guy outside got a candy bar nor where the missing box of candy bars went, you simply cannot hold that guy accountable for it. This is how rules & logic work.

(4) If you don't understand & can't provide answers to the above 3 points, then there really is little point of continuing the discussion. Imagine if someone accused you of cheating but doesn't have proof. Would you also be okay with suffering the same punishment as to whatever your answer is for question #1 above if you are unable to authoritatively prove your innocence given whatever your answer is to #2?