"Where there is a will

Thers a way"

Thats what they say.

If a man desires to kill

Theres no point to sway.

He'll make death

Don't waste your breath

you cant prevent.


Moral: If somebody wants to kill they will kill

Edited 1/12/2015 18:01:01

You can't get rid of guns in the US.

The problem with gun control, is it only affects law-abiding citizens. Most crimes committed with guns are done with guns that were procured illegally already. More laws won't stop criminals from breaking the law. Just like anything else the US has tried to ban, people who want to get it will still get it.

So if you outright banned all guns, you'd just end up with even more defenseless victims. Also, it would open up a larger black market, which increases crime. Look at prohibition. Look at the war on drugs. All it served to do is empower the mafia, empower drug cartels, and empower gangs.

People who don't live in America need to realize that it's a different culture, and a different geopolitical situation. If you really want to learn something interesting, take a look at the crime rates in each state when they passed either new gun control or gun rights legislation.

Lastly, when the 2A was written, Congress had already ordered automatic rifles, so don't think they were only thinking of muskets. There was a rifle being developed that could fire 8 rounds in 5 seconds, roman-candle style. The 2A was written with the idea that any weapon the government could own, citizens could own. Many of the ships and cannons used in the revolutionary war were privately owned.

I've never debated gun control before, but i think a big reason for supporting gun control is that guns simply gives people a quick and easy method to kill. Murders are often performed under acts of anger and rage rather than coldly calculated and planned long beforehand. Murderers are not necessarily psychopaths and violent lunatics, perfectly normal people can let their emotions get the better out of them, and its understandable, though its still murder anyway.

Say someone finds his wife has been cheating on him, its easy to just kill her there and then when he has a gun lying just on the table. Banning guns, however, would mean the person would first have to illegally purchase a gun through a black market, which can take the motivation away from people and perhaps give them the time to reflect and forgive. Not to mention pulling a trigger requires less physical and psychological effort and probably less bravery than going up to someone and full on stabbing him with a knife.

Yes, people kill people, not guns. But I think the simple possession of a gun gives some people a feeling of power and a quick and easy means to vent their anger and frustrations on others. Its not good.

Edited 1/12/2015 18:47:57

My only issue with America is their foreign policy. Interventionist, hypocritical, biased and ineffectual. All they seek is an American empire, thinly veiled by blatant disregard for the very rights they preach.

Each country has their own culture, positives and negatives. The US culture is in the limelight due to globalization and the high demand for it. The same applies to internal politics. Racism, xenophobia and the problem of forming an ideal welfare state are all debated worldwide due to their position. Not to mention it is ammunition to criticize America a bit more. Real hard to criticize constructively unless you are a resident or extremely well versed in American domestic affairs.

If America fought only when threatened, did not intervene in Big Brother style and went about correcting its internal affairs I am sure many here would praise their gallantry and wisdom. Shame that a country with such power is doing the complete opposite of that.

Was it good that we left Syria?( i think not cause now Isis is loose)

Look at history. When peopled try to rebel with out weapons they end up dead. What would happen if The colonies didn't have guns? Or the French revolution? Look at Ukraine they walk around with shields and hard hats and get massacred.

Think of it, if everybody owned guns the government would fear the people.( To me this is good that way government doesn't walk all over the people)

damn, this is so dumb, it will be waste of time to provide an answer. anyway, times have changed mate. We live in the 21st century not in the 19th! You claim america to be the best country in the world and say, that you need guns to fear the government. this is pretty sad and shizophrene. The government doesnt care for a single second about the armed citizens. They already walk all over the people. They locked the water supply to the poorest and no one did anything to deal with this. You are nothing else, than products of fear and consumption! by the way are you christian?

In ancient times, where a single sherrif used to protect a vaste area with his gun and horse, armed civilians and the castle doctrine might have made sense. In fact that people already had a gun for hunt. And too many must have sent to prison without this specific law. But nowadays it's outdated. It is the duty of the police to protect the people. If everyone judges a crime by hisself you will obviously end up in anarchy!

Now you may say, "But what happens when a guy decides to go homicide?" well my answer would be that you would be stupid to go homicide because everybody has a gun.

why do you think that guns are appropriate to defend yourselfes? Do you really think it might help you to prevent an assassination, committed with another gun? This is ridiculous!

EDIT: totally agree with Pulsey.

Edited 1/12/2015 18:57:09

Pulsey, those types of murders are quite rare, while guns are used for self-defense quite a lot. A study by the department of justice found over 1 million cases per year of self-defense with a firearm.

Of course, if you banned guns, you would prevent *some* homicides. Just looking at that and not considering the other side of the coin though, is extremely short-sighted.

Homicides are committed by a certain demographic at a rate far higher than other demographics, and as I said, studies have found that the guns they use weren't acquired legally.

Edit: Ranek, 15 minute response time is going to do what for you when a meth-head breaks into your house at night? Look at the facts before deciding what the best course of action is.

Edited 1/12/2015 19:02:33

I don't praise america.

And i never said having a gun prevents death. it just kills the killer

Pola, about your comment about Switzerland: 30% of it's citizens are foreign born. I think the example you showed is more an example of bad advertising rather than xenophobia. Switzerland also has high tourism rates. It would not have all this if it was xenophobic.

I cant remember exactly which one of these two has this law but Ireland or Greenland have a law that all citizens must take a shooting coarse and if they pass they get a gun. Now knowing that every body has a gun who would rob?

@Polakillo

At least Switzerland don't have immigration problems. Thanks to there direct democracy, their government has to do what the people want. Without direct democracy, the government do not do what most people want.

If other west european countries had a real democracy like Switzerland, then they would also not have any immigration problems. I wish my country was a real democracy...

You are being spoiled. Netherlands is one of the best countries on the planet.

Little Blue, I disagree. Yes, gun possession can be used as self defence but I compare it to using violence to combat violence. I'll keep using simple every-day examples here. Say there's a kid who keeps getting bullied in the playground. Should you give the kid a taser so that the next time he can scare away his bully? No. You try to find out why this behaviour is taking place and you try to put a stop to it so that both parties can be happy.

Same here. Surely peaceful policies leading to a more secure and safer society, is much better than arming citizens and leaving them in a dangerous one? Possession of guns only help address the symptoms of the problem, which is crime and violence, it doesn't solve the roots of this at all. Some amateurish ideas from the top of my head could be a larger police force, promotion of racial equality, stricter laws and penalties or offering counselling and guidance to people with psychological issues?

Not exactly relevant, but I believe gun legalisation is also a reason for Police brutality in the US. Anyone the police approaches is a potential danger and potentially armed, and while I don't approve of the brutality, I can understand why they are often over aggressive in making arrests, they have good reason to fear and thus protect themselves.

I don't think incidents where someone attacks someone with a gun under a fit of rage is rare, but you may be right. Have you got any statistics?

Edited 1/12/2015 19:46:09

I think we should limit the possession of weapons in the United States, criminals can simply buy weapons quantities, and shoot who they want.

One follow-up to Pulsey's point: The majority of gun-related deaths are actually suicides.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/05/24/suicides-account-for-most-gun-deaths/

This on it's own is a significant reason to try to limit easy access to guns. It is much, much easier to kill yourself with a gun, than by using other methods. Perhaps more importantly, if you attempt to kill yourself with a gun, you will most likely succeed in killing yourself, whereas other means are less effective. This is important, because most people attempt suicide as an impulsive act and most survivors regret having attempted to kill themselves.

http://www.businessinsider.com/many-suicides-are-based-on-an-impulsive-decision-2014-8

This is an aspect of this debate that I think ought to be getting more attention.

Edited 1/12/2015 19:28:29

"Look at Ukraine they walk around with shields and hard hats and get massacred."

people from both sides are dead and still dieing, and that is NOT a good thing. Absolutely not a good thing

"Or the French revolution?"
French revolution had no guns in it. Parlament was forcibly closed and some peolpe from there closed themselfs in some room. Newspapers "made mountains out of molehills" and people started wearing some insignia to say, that they support revolution. In a day all of Paris was in those insignia.
Revolution won, constitutional monarchy appiared. "Viva la revolution" with no gunfire

Edited 1/12/2015 19:33:22

Ranek, 15 minute response time is going to do what for you when a meth-head breaks into your house at night? Look at the facts before deciding what the best course of action is.

Within 15 min, the police would have appeared three to five times! Further, I have two doorlocks. and I use them, this is all the protection I need ...

A study by the department of justice found over 1 million cases per year of self-defense with a firearm.

one million cases per year of self-defense with a firearm. impressing, but in a sad way... I would like to see this statistic, do you have a link?

By the way there must be a comparing statistic about murder in different nations. I would bet that america leads it...

Do not go overboard, I'm guessing Colombia in terms of percent

Ranek im pretty sure people can break your door down.