To be fair JK's proposal stops big clans getting bigger, it doesn't make them kick anyone unless they want to recruit.

quite literally mod's point but explained more in depth

more clans of less people -> more player engagement, less community fragmentation, more competitiveness in competitions, no social disconnect

clans with infinite size -> complete domination of every single event, reduced individual player engagement cause they are just a number amongst a clan of hundreds, impossible to manage and coordinate

it's just healthy for a game to have smaller communities and not infinitely sized ones

Stef - I wanted a number which does not threaten the massive amount of work we have done building Harmony into what it is.

Arbitrary or not, a limit of 150 would destroy much of what we have built.

Chromo

Clans of infinite size are not dominating every event. CW is dominated by a capped Clan. CL Clans in Div A are all capped apart from Optimum.

why not make the cap one which has no impact

The cap has to prevent mega clans, if the cap has no impact, it might as well not exist at all.

300 is better than 500 because its lower. 300 is still too much (but cant go below that without breaking Harmony), stefano would be right that 150 is a good number, and i'll increase it to 200 to allow for a few players going inactive.
Less is more, WZ has been focusing more and more around an ever shrinking number of clans ever since I started playing.
Anything that isn't Div A, B or top 5 in CW is so small and limited that anyone that is looking for a good clan will quickly leave it for one of the ~15 notable clans around.

There are 747 clans, and only 2% is clans that an above average player would consider joining. The rest is just crap, and will stay crap, unless we forcibly break the feedback loop that causes mega clans.

Diversity is good for communities.

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One major issue we have is players sign up and do not play

The fact that you can't get a CW roster together shows that as clans get too big, communication falls apart. I.m.o TLA already has this issue at 150 members, where some people just cannot be reached.

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400 members in 1 clan = less money than 40 members in 10 clans

This isnt about money, Fizzer sells idle powers to make money, what he earns on clans is neglectable in that regard, regardless of how much clans he sells.

Edited 5/13/2024 13:58:57

I was tongue in cheek but why would it? it would stop recruitment and I can see how that would impact clan activity in the long run but noone suggested to just split the larger clans, also I tend to agree with Chris' assesment above and Fizzer seems to think that way too. Why smaller communities? Cause Fizzer said so.

I don't see how a cap of 150 will change the fact that only 2% of clans are worth joining, because none of these 2% have (substantially) more than 150 players. The larger clans are essentially dead weight, like Darklords and Cats, no?

Edited 5/13/2024 14:00:31

The only capped clan in Div A is USB at the moment. The remaining 6 for their own reasons have less members (pretty sure)

Either way, if everyone had an equal opportunity into having an infinitely sized clan, then the end result in CW would be 2 clans fighting for the top, essentially meaning social disconnect. Community-wise, it would mean that there are a handful of inf sized clans and no new communities formed, thus the game becomes stale.

the only feasible solution i can think of that doesnt destroy communities is tiers of roles in clans, where you've got competitive players and social players.
social is infinitely sized. (or capped at 300 or sth high)
competitive is ~60 or so.

Only thing social ones can't do is participate in ingame competitions with their clan, and maybe idle rewards for the sake of slowly trying to urge people away of large clans into smaller communities, sth Fizzer wants

But what if someone buys a social clan when the whole intention of it is to use it in competitive events?

I don't understand.

There are no social clans and competitive clans in what I said. There's roles in the players in the clan that are either competitive or social. The managers are able to give those roles the players. Someone that is social simply can't participate in the in-game events.

I was skim reading.

Stefano - we currently have hundreds of players involved in the HTL.

If we were to set the limit at 150 Members, I would need to remove some of our Members who are actively involved in the HTL. Some of these could potentially make a seasonal finale. How do I do that ? We could phase the Clan reduction which would remove the need for me to cut players. Ultimately, that would still mean that the HTL is damaged and may ultimately kill off what has been a great thing for our Clan - so much so that it has been extended to the wider community.

We have other initiatives which are similar and would be similarly damaged.

Either way, lets try to stick to the purpose of this thread: How to give new clans a sparkle of hope of growing into something bigger without creating a clan full of alts.

We have discussed the limiting of old clans part now (no consensus yet, probably never will be), so lets change our focus to the small clans.

How might they be allowed to grow?
Should it be pay to upgrade?
Or some sort of leveling system? (And how do we prevent already good clans from using that to start a new feedback loop?)

Is 60 members default enough?

Or, wild idea, lets just keep it at 40 cap default, and allow the upgrade to a full (capped at 300 or whatever) clan for the cost of 500 coins? (since new clan is 500 cheaper than old clan used to be)

Edited 5/13/2024 14:17:15

Chromo - the idea of tiered roles in Clans sounds good.

1. It solves the competitive problem (or perceived problem) in CW & CL
2. It enables the non-competitive benefits of Mega-Clans to remain

JK - I would like to discuss this with you in private. Not because I have any particularly secret issues but because I think that I am missing some of your points and would like to get more up to speed and don't want to spam here.

(Check Discord)

I'm taking back my previous statement, I had no idea Harmony was 400+ players at this point o_O

JK, I like the idea of tiered charging:

Capped at 45 - x Coins (slightly above the 40 player CW limit seems helpful)

Capped at 150 - x+y Coins (150 is the Stef non-arbitrary number)

Capped at 500 - x+y+z Coins (500 is round number higher than the current largest Clan)

Unlimited - grandfather rights only (by setting the limit at 500 above effectively makes unlimited Clans similar to the largest possible capped Clans). Note: if a grandfathered Clan has more than 500 Members that suggests that its Members see a benefit in this - this benefit is unlikely to be to the detriment of other Clans .

Edited 5/13/2024 15:52:43

Fizzer wont change clan structure. That will never happen.

Flexus clan dominates while being capped. But thats STILL not good enough for Flexus. He is here for one thing, and that is to gain FURTHER ADVANTAGE as if he doesn't already have enough. What a joke.

Therefore, The only result of this forum is to cement Flexus image as the most "$&#@*+%" [use your own adjective] warzoner ever.