@TChosen1

Gaddafi was not the terrible of the tyrant ruler wich the media protrays him as.
Facts that Gaddafi did.

1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free
for all its citizens.

2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.

3. Home considered a human right in Libya – Gaddafi vowed that his parents would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a home. Gaddafi’s father has died while him, his wife and his mother are still living in a tent.

4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$ 50,000 ) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family.

5. Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25% of Libyans are literate. Before Gaddafi got overthrown the figure was 83%.

6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farminghouse, equipments, seeds and livestock to kick- start their farms – all for free.

7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya, the goverment funds them to go abroad for it – not only free but they get US $2, 300/mth
accommodation and car allowance.

8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government subsidized 50% of the price.

9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0. 14 per liter.

10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves amount to $150 billion – now frozen globally.

11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found.

12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.

13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US $5 ,000

14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15

15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree

16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Man-Made River project, to make water readily available throughout the desert country.

Plz think outside the media and that picture that I put was to show that Libya was better off with Gaddafi then a so called democratic goverment.

Edited 3/20/2015 10:51:59

@Skourby

Does Iraq really look better now?

Hold up and wait a second, have you realized why we funded nearly half of the countries we did in the Middle East? We funded Iraq with weapons and money to stop Russia, who at the time was still Communist. Wanna know what we were trying to do at the time? Stop the spread of communism. And then Russia fell apart and blah blah blah.

Now the pictures kind sir, is what happens after civil wars. You realize there are these things called explosions, and they tend to tare an area apart right? And bullets also cause damage when not landing into something fleshy and alive.

Also you realize that most countries are changing their types of governments because thats what the people want? Hell most (not all) countries hold some form of election to decide who their next leader is going to be.

Also Gaddafi was an Authoritarian dictator. Meaning he controlled everything. Including the Lybian media. Do you really thin an entire country would turn in on its self if all those things were true? Comeon.


And this comes from a person who doesnt really pay attention to polotics and news.

Edited 3/20/2015 09:36:41

@The Hermit



Edited 3/20/2015 10:05:48

Hold up and wait a second

Hold up and wait a year. Spend this year reading and informing yourself about history and world politics. Avoid the 6 media companies that control 90% of your media, namely GE, NEWSCORP, DISNEY, VIACOM, TIME WARNER and CBS. Because right now you are utterly clueless.

We funded Iraq with weapons and money to stop Russia, who at the time was still Communist.

Wrong. "You" did not fund Iraq to stop Russia, you funded Iraq to stop Iran who "you" had been funding before to stop Russia. "You" went into Iran , destroyed a young modern democracy in a muslim country, installed a puppet dictator, sold them the fifth largest army in the world in exchange for their oil and when the people couldnt bear the oppression and exploitation anymore, "you" went to Iraq. There "you" supported a ruthless militarist, who had been using chemical weapons against his own people, which of course "you" knew, since "you" were one of the nations that provided Iraq with WMD (others were Germany, Italy and France), and sold him another huge army in exchange for the oil. Then "you" encouraged that ruthless dictator to attack Iran, promised him that he could keep all the oil fields he can conquer and watched him use chemical weapons on Iran as he did on the Kurds before. After years of war, disillusioned by a persian nation fighting back, this dictator eventually decided to go for the easier oil fields in Kuwait.
THIS was the moment "you" went to Iraq. It was just what "you" considered "your" oil and "your" lap dog in Iraq was getting the strange idea he could just take it. Now to get the support of "your" sheeple population to join in that war against Iraq, "you" a paid huge sum to a marketing company to invent a lie about babies being taken out of their incubators by iraq soldiers.
A couple of years later "you" would invent another lie, to drag that same sheeple population in a second war against the same country.
It had nothing to do with Russia.

Do you really thin an entire country would turn in on its self if all those things were true?

If you believe "your" 6 major news companies that control 90% of "your" media, yes an entire country turned on an big bad ruthless authoritarian dictator. You would also believe the faked idea that Lybia was the most censored state in 2011. Interestingly this report was released by the freedom house, which is nothing but a US interest serving propaganda NGO. The UN human rights council for the same year was full of praise for Lybia. Doesn't match that well does it?
The truth is, it wasnt his population that he fought, but Al Qaida groups that "you" financed via Saudi Arabia and Qatar. And "you" didnt take him down because he was a dictator, since "you" establish puppet dictatorship on half the world. "You" took him down because he was about to establish the Gold Dinar and with one stroke would shift the power balance towards the oil producing countries. No more oil for dollars, but oil for gold. Since "you" have none, "you" would suddenly be disempowered. Another strange man with the strange idea of sovereignity.

And this comes from a person who doesnt really pay attention to polotics and news.

Pretty obvious.

Edited 3/20/2015 10:23:29

@ The Hermit I've done some research into Ottoman's statements and at least some are true (specifically the impressive leap in education). Fairly impressive. Interestingly enough, foreign languages didn't seem to be part of the Libyan curriculum.

However, this is counterbalanced by a lack of free press and cases of people disappearing (always a sign of a ruler that wants you to speak up and be heard).

and you know, you don't earn many friends with statements like this.
"those who don't love me do not deserve to live".

100% Benevolence and tolerance right there good sirs. Why respond in a rational manner when you can respond with death threats!

Edit: some quotes from the "full of praise" UN human rights doc

Recommendations:

93.40. Immediately release all individuals detained without a legal basis,
including those that have completed their terms and those acquainted by courts
(Slovakia);
93.41. Comply with international obligations, and ensure full and
unhampered enjoyment of freedom of expression (Czech Republic);
93.42. Abrogate all provisions criminalizing freedom of expression
(Switzerland);
93.43. Provide for free, independent media in accordance with the Libyan
Arab Jamahiriya’s international obligations (Slovakia);

Edited 3/20/2015 10:30:56

@TCHosen1

Other quotes from the full of praise UN Human rights pdf

E/C.12/LYB/CO/2
page 2
B. Positive aspects
3. The Committee welcomes the State party’s accession to the International Convention on
the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families.
4. The Committee notes with satisfaction that the State party hosted a technical assistance
mission of the International Labour Organization in July 2005, with the aim of fostering the
fulfilment of its obligations under several ILO social security conventions.
5. The Committee notes with satisfaction the delegation’s statement that women may now
travel abroad freely.
6. The Committee notes with satisfaction that the State party has the highest literacy and
educational enrolment rates in North Africa, and welcomes the high rates of female students in
schooling.

CEDAW/C/LBY/CO/5

Positive aspects
4. The Committee commends the State party for acceding in 2004 to the Optional
Protocol to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination
against Women.
5. The Committee notes with satisfaction the progress made by the State party
towards the achievement of equality between women and men in the areas of
education, health and social security. In this respect, the Committee particularly
welcomes the approval by the General People’s Congress, in March 1997, of the
Charter on the Rights and Duties of Women in the Libyan Arab Society.
6. The Committee notes that Law No. 10 of 1984 regulating marriage and divorce
was amended by Law No. 9 of 1993 to prohibit polygamy without the written
consent of the first wife and authorization from the court, which is a step towards
the complete abolition of polygamy. The Committee further notes that article 37 of
the Law revokes all rulings based on the principle of nushuz (recalcitrance), which
shall be considered null and void.

Edited 3/20/2015 10:51:28

myhand, you do know your hand has been on fire for five years?

93.40. Immediately release all individuals detained without a legal basis,
including those that have completed their terms and those acquainted by courts

Does that include Guantanamo Bay prisoners?

Edited 3/20/2015 10:50:48

@ Myhand we're not talking about Guantanamo Bay, we're discussing Libya. Why attempt to derail the topic?

And yes, Gaddafi has done good things for Libya. I never said that Gaddafi was a hellspawn incapable of doing good things for the people or something. In fact, I specifically noted that the increase in education was very good. I'm saying that despite those things, he still prevented exercise of freedom of speech, caused disappearances, threatened dissenters, and the usual oppression tactics.

Here's a good example:

68. Brazil noted the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya’s economic and social progress and
acknowledged the promotion of the rights of persons with disabilities, the free health care
and the high enrolment in primary education. Brazil noted the successful cooperation with
international organizations in areas such as migrant rights, judicial reform and the fight
against corruption. Brazil noted that reports of torture were recurrent and that legislation on
racial discrimination was lacking. Brazil made recommendations.

Edited 3/20/2015 11:35:42

@TChosen1

What is the point of freedom when now country is descended into chaos and extremists and violence like ISIS rolling ramped in the country. Libya is now considered a failed state after Gaddafi was overthrown. Don't buy in to what some of the brainless idiots have to say. Gadaffi was an amazing man, he offered free education, free heath care, free everything to allow for his country to flourish. He was about the change their currency to the Gold Deena as their country is rife with gold. If this happened, that would have meant that 200,000 people dying of starvation in 3rd world countries would never happen again, however, once this happens a president who tries to help the people ends up being killed by the "economic hitman". This is when America, nato etc go out to kill them by what they portray to be an accident.
You know why they do this? It's because to keep the billionares billionares, the 1%, the elites, then you have to have the poor. America relies on 3rd world countries to have billionares & mass corperations. Gaddafi's own people even said that he was the KING OF AFRICA.




Libya had the highest standard of living then any country in Africa



Recommended watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COdKmHkPoOo

Edited 3/20/2015 11:32:48

93.40. Immediately release all individuals detained without a legal basis,
including those that have completed their terms and those acquainted by courts

I am not derailing the topic, i thought you were talking about Guantanamo Bay, because that is exactly a bunch of individuals detained without a legal basis. My bad.

Nobody claimed Lybia to be a scandinavian style paramount of virtue democracy. It was all to be set in comaprison.

Here is another good example:

The Committee reiterates its recommendation that the
State party should take effective measures to prevent acts of torture, not only in its
sovereign territory, but also “in any territory under its jurisdiction”. In that respect,
the Committee draws attention to its general comment No. 2 (2007), in which it
recognizes that ‘any territory’ includes “all areas where the State party exercises,
directly or indirectly, in whole or in part, de jure or de facto effective control, in
accordance with international law

The State party should ensure that all cases of unlawful killing, torture or other illtreatment,
unlawful detention or enforced disappearance are effectively,
independently and impartially investigated, that perpetrators, including, in particular,
persons in positions of command, are prosecuted and sanctioned, and that victims are
provided with effective remedies. The responsibility of those who provided legal
pretexts for manifestly illegal behavior should also be established.

The State party should continue and step up its efforts to robustly address racial
disparities in the criminal justice system, including by amending regulations and
policies leading to racially disparate impact at the federal, state and local levels. The
State party should ensure the retroactive application of the Fair Sentencing Act and
reform mandatory minimum sentencing statutes.

The State party should continue and step up measures to effectively combat and
eliminate racial profiling by federal, state and local law enforcement officials

The Committee is concerned about the still high number of fatal shootings by certain
police forces, ..., and reports of excessive use of force by
certain law enforcement officers, ...

The State party should enact legislation to explicitly prohibit torture, including mental
torture, wherever committed, and ensure that the law provides for penalties
commensurate with the gravity of such acts, whether committed by public officials or
other persons acting on behalf of the State, or by private persons. The State party
should ensure the availability of compensation to victims of torture

The State party should ensure that non-consensual use of psychiatric medication,
electroshock and other restrictive and coercive practices in mental health services is
generally prohibited. Non-consensual psychiatric treatment may only be applied, if at
all, in exceptional cases as a measure of last resort where absolutely necessary for the
benefit of the person concerned, provided that he or she is unable to give consent, and
for the shortest possible time without any long-term impact and under independent
review. The State party should promote psychiatric care aimed at preserving the
dignity of patients, both adults and minors.

The State party should expedite the transfer of detainees designated for transfer,
including to Yemen, as well as the process of periodic review for ...
detainees and ensure either their trial or their immediate release and the closure of
the ... facility. It should end the system of administrative detention
without charge or trial and ensure that any criminal cases against detainees held in
... and in military facilities in ... are dealt with through the
criminal justice system rather than military commissions, and that those detainees are
afforded the fair trial guarantees enshrined in article 14 of the Covenant.

(CAT/C/USA/CO/2, para. 15)


I know its hard for you to rid yourself of your lifelong media build bias. But its time you start looking at things the way they are, not the way you want them to be.

Edited 3/20/2015 12:01:36

myhand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t97R3jxbl6E

Shouldnt you be playing with model racing cars?
No matter how hard you try to look smart Thomas, you always look silly.

Edited 3/20/2015 12:08:09

oh look, you finally responded with exactly the same thing that I refuted brilliantly several days ago. Although the US does suck, SHUT UP ABOUT IT

Yeah I get it, you desperately sought my attention. You finally got a response, you can now continue to grow up.

Edited 3/20/2015 12:10:19

It's almost amusing then whenever I try to bring up issues with Gaddafi's reign, you restate the same points louder and louder and louder. Please refer to my previous post Ottoman for my response of Gaddafi as a ruler, because it's clear that you haven't actually read it.

and Gaddafi's people referring to him as the "King of Africa"? Welp they must be unbiased, it's not like there's any cases of disappearing dissenters or torture OH WAIT!

but wait, there's more to that!

you claimed earlier that american are sheeple (Baaa!) because their news is controlled by 6 major corporations. Well I got news for you hot off the presses (had to use that news-related phrase). In Libya, the entire media is controlled by ONE entity. Know what it's called? THE STATE. And then you have the GALL to claim that the people of Libya aren't sheeple (Baaa!) by using them as a character reference.

And also, Gaddafi's been in power for over FOURTY years and just now he's being hit by the "economic hitman"? For a country that needs "complete control over 3rd world nations for it's billionaires" they certainly took a loooong time to respond. That's a terrible response rate. Why are you so scared of a country that takes 40+ years to act? America = Scarily Incompetent

Heck not just act. Organize tens of thousands of people to protest, organize, and rebel, in large numbers of differing factions, all without being noticed by Russia, China, or any major power that would benefit from exposing this. And you know, start this a MAXIMUM of 10 years ago against someone who's been in power for 40+ years. America = Scarily Competent or America = Accomplisher of the Impossible

Seeing a contradiction here?

Furthermore, saying "brainless idiots" doesn't do anything but make their point more valid. You can't defeat them, so you resort to name calling, eh?

Jeez I'm sure that that video presents ALL the facts and doesn't cherry-pick the ones that fits their world view. I mean it's not like they're trying to push their viewpoint, right? They're completely neutral and will leave the final desicion up to you. (/sarcasm)


@ Myhand:

yes it's one thing to say that perpertrators of those acts should be punished, it's another thing together to have those acted on. Has there been any record of that?

Edited 3/20/2015 12:37:25

TChosen1

Wow talking about being a brainwashed puppet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr7ePrCAqzo

Ps: That video doens't presents ALL the facts but is uses 99% more facts then your media uses. Sorry that we use a moronic thing called thinking.

Edited 3/20/2015 13:57:32

Oh noes, he's brought out the insults! All my arguments are nothing in the face of name calling. I bow to your superiorness.

100th post