Looks like we're going to keep this thread going until everyone and their mother's voiced their opinion about the issue.

@Dogberry: Marriage is not consent to intimate partner violence. Transferring someone MR is explicit consent to transfer of control. Please stop trying to exploit the real suffering of rape victims to further your stupid argument.

They completely neglected the responsibilities that any true clan manager should have (carefully keeping MR safe) and chose instead to live in that perfect world with rainbows and My Little Ponys where nothing could ever possibly go wrong because everyone can be trusted

...and because of this, they got what they had coming from long ago; they lose their clan and Colonel's own actions (yes, btching about the whole situation to Fizzer), caused the damage to become permenant

@Dogberry: Marriage is not consent to intimate partner violence. Transferring someone MR is explicit consent to transfer of control. Please stop trying to exploit the real suffering of rape victims to further your stupid argument.

Actually, it is not. If I decide to SHARE manager rights with somebody, I am agreeing to a limited exercise of this ability, NOT a "transfer of control". Unfortunately, that is why I believe that The Lost Wolves is doomed to fail.

If you, as a woman, marry someone, you are by definition agreeing to have sex with this person. However, it has limits. For example, if for some medical reason you do not wish to have sex with him, the courts will not accept the marriage certificate as a proof that rape was consented to. In the same light, a hijacking was not consented to when I decided to SHARE manager rights.

@Semice: I didn't say anything to Fizzer until after your alt got banned, so don't lie.

Edited 5/20/2016 03:25:54

Knyte, you're just making an absolute fool of yourself trying to put any blame at all on anyone except the person who willfully hijacked a clan.

If it wasn't for the fact you need this guy, you would see the common sense in the arguments defending the victims and attacking the perpetrator

After your stance against ladder cheating, i know you have a sense of wrong & right... so grow up and admit the fault is 100% on those that commit the crime. 0% on those who suffer because of it

that's not true at all. The main person at fault is Semice, but the person who gave him MR in the clan has to take some of the blame. Once again, its like asking him to hold onto $15 and expecting him to give it back.

Edited 5/20/2016 03:42:02

Yeah well, both of you are making premature claims. As stated we already have taken action despite the lack of evidence, and while that is intended to be temporary, we are treating this as holding a suspect without bail. Your the person who claimed that this could be seen as relative to rape, but refuse to recognize such an act as relative to ladder cheating, which is complete hypocrisy.

Now with that out of the way, lets realize the fact that there is still a lack of evidence semice committed such an act. I'm pretty sure you are familiar with the idea of innocent until proven guilty. Please provide such proof, and as we have already shown, and since it appears to me that me and knyte are acting as defense lawyers, please don't bring out any evidence that we or semice has already shown to have flaws in it.

Basically the contention between the two of you and knyte is over what MR sharing means. Knyte has already stated this, but the system literally tells you that you are granting them the right to remove MR from you and all other people with MR. If that doesn't resolve the issue, you clearly cannot read, while you may have had the intention of sharing rights, I must ask you would you share the rights of your credit card to someone without having high levels of trust? If the answer is yes, go to a doctor now. If the answer is no, then why are you acting so idiotically in terms of MR? you should treat it as a credit card, only shared when absolutely necessary, and as far as I can tell the member that hijacked the clan did not need such access.

jap, I did not ask the Wolves to be involved in this thread. This was not intended to be a Wolf-banging thread. knyte chose to come here and make a noise.

This thread is for Fizzer. We want him to ban Semicedevine. Nothing to do with the Wolves at all except that you guys are defending him just because you think you have to. Semice deserves to die on WarLight. Sorry m8.

I believe we are obligated to defend our own clan members when they get accused of something that there is a conclusive lacking of evidence. As such, since there is such a situation in regards to semice actually having hijacked your clan.

basically what me and knyte have been doing since page 1 is an attempt to protect semice from a sh*tstorm that in our eyes he is yet to earn. Without conclusive evidence, just condemning those that could be innocent functions quite like in the opposite of the American and many other first world justice systems in which innocence is presumed. He hasn't quite exactly earned that right, and some hijacks he has claimed responsibility for may in fact not be his. As such we view your accusations, attempts to get him banned, and OCC attacks on this thread as fully unjustifiable, and will go to whatever lengths necessary to defend him.

Also TLW at least under former gov'ts believed in giving people second chances, that's why our clan is littered with ex-hijackers of the clan itself(semice, Heather, relm at least, there's probably more considering the number of hijacks and coups TLW has had). I don't think knyte plans on disrupting that. I mean we had it to the point where both relm and semice had hijacked and counterhijacked each other for a span of a few months as effective dictator, but neither was ever kicked out of the clan, and in fact before knyte's rise to power, both had MR under Relm as ruler.

Alright in my defense I'd just like to say:


9/10 times I hijack a clan, I give it back like the day immediately after

If this wasn't the case, CORP, TLW, and falcons wouldn't exist today

but the problem is... Fizzer suspended the alt LEL

and he gave MR back to the original guy who bought the clan (who's like 6 months inactive)

soooo now I actually feel really bad about it :(

and besides I wasn't going to ruin RE or anything, because usually I hand clans back just the way I found them

but mostly because I'm too lazy to kick people... since that's knyte's thing lol

I would much rather be on the spam invites side hehehe


But nonetheless I'd like to apologize anyways. I thought I had everything under control for the ultimate troll in RP Clan history and didn't realize how this whole thing could get so out of hand... and also that Fizzer was enough of an ass to actually walk-in on our RPCL exclusive-only orgy -_-

Sorry.


#blameItOnFizzerForInterruptionInPolicies

#WhytheFuckDidntFizzerGiveVitrixMortalisBacktoMichaelWhenDomHijackedIt???

#wtfFizzerYouCantJustChooseWhichClansToHelpAndWhichClansToNotHelp

#LifesNotFair

#how2semiceGoneWrong


Edited 5/17/2016 18:38:19

-Semice

I don't know how this is considered "vague". You can claim he's lying about it to get attention, but this is as close to proof as you're going on the internet. Either Semice is a troll who hijacks clans for jollies or he's a troll who claims to have hacked another clan for jollies. Why argue which specific kind of troll he is?

Not like I really care either way what the wolves do. I'm just not used to seeing such an impassioned defense of a troll from a well respected member of the community. Either way, this will be my last post. At best, this is a fairly minor amusement to behold. See you all on the battlefield.

Ahem...

Noooooo, Semice does my math homework

The only one here saying I have no right to even discuss the issue is Angry Koala- when you're literally calling for actions (formerly including a permanent ban from the site) to be taken against a leading member of my clan, actions that will directly affect (harm) both me and The Lost Wolves

Again exaggerating, did I ever say you had "no right to even discuss" about it?

And you are the one feeding drama here Knyte, if you paid attention my very first post in this thread I clearly said this thread was pointless: "Uservoice about one player is useless, as it has nothing to do about improving Warlight as a whole". I do not care at all about a ban. However, what I was against is you arrogantly telling others that RP leaders are shit, and you at the meantime not doing better, defending one of the worst hijacker ever, and not taking any great action against him.

It is fine to criticize others, but only when the one criticizing is also irreproachable, which isn't clearly the case here. Accept yourself critics, and do not be paranoid there isn't "mob justice", I was barely answering your own attacks.

And last but not least, frankly it is funny to see "Semice's friend" trying to defend him: "despite the lack of evidence," "Any of you genius have any actual proof saying Semice hijacked the clan ?", "I doubt that was Semice's doing". Despite all the points being against Semice made in this thread. Quite ridiculous, tbh, if this thread had more people with objective views, this thread would have been dead long ago.

This is my last participation here, was answering again and correcting some points made since some people like knyte here tend to speak on my behalf...

A little hint: if you confess and say sowwie then people have nothing left to talk about. If everyone just confessed his sins it would be easier and people are less pissed.

Why ban Semicedevine? he is just stupid 10 year kid, who is attention whore

@Dr. stupid: Fizzer can check IP addresses as well. In any case, permabans are Fizzer's thing, not mine. If you want someone to take action, why not just use the simple Report function?

Well, I said the previous post was going to be my last, so I guess that was a lie.

:(

I should clarify. I'm not pushing for a perma ban like the OP is. I frankly don't care if there's any ban at all.

As far as clans go, I don't even care what you do with Semice in terms of wolves membership goes.

I was just surprised to see:
1. That the wolves are ok with their members doing this.
2. Your impassioned defense of Semice when he had already admitted it.

This isn't a "defense of Semi." We're totally not okay with what he did, but... Playing the victim card isn't okay either. He's taking advantage of the system. He's a dick. But these people - these incredibly gullible, untrustworthy-yet-trusting managers - are letting him take advantage of the system due to their sheer idiocy. They deserve some flak too, for not only allowing this to happen, but for coming on here and bitching about something they created through their own stupidity.

If Semi even did it in the first place. Which we have no way of proving.

I'm not going to get in to a "he said, she said" thing.

This thread is totally gonna get locked.

Edited 5/21/2016 02:07:28

I think we can wrap this up by saying that Semicedevine was - allegedly - a naughty boy and he shouldn't have done what he - allegedly - did. However, the managers of the respective clans that Semicedevine - allegedlyish - "hijacked," were stupid enough to let Semi - allegedly - take their shit. Notice the word "let." There was legitimate consent to this.

Perfect NSFW Analogy - It's kind of like someone (allegedly) literally asking a significant other if they consent to sex (gaining trust like Semi did), and then having that significant other accidentally (ish) impregnated ("hijacked"). Then that significant other says that someone (Semi) should be imprisoned (perma-banned) for unexpectedly doing something that they didn't want to see happen(Impregnation/Hijacking)

Also, that's how babies are made.

*Lies*

This thread is totally gonna get locked

Edited 5/21/2016 02:07:57

That the wolves are ok with their members doing this.

Where'd you get that from? I prefaced about half my posts with some variation of "whoever's behind this is a douchebag." But my point is that RP clan leaders aren't willing enough to acknowledge that this was primarily their failure, and I've gotten a surprising amount of backlash for that given the sort of response I got when I was on the "oh shit we just got hijacked" side of this problem (https://www.warlight.net/Forum/90820-request-fix-improve-clan-system).

Choice quotes:

Why are you giving manager rights away? Why do others even need the manager rights?

- Lolowut

Managers are responsible. There is a warning on the exact page.

- Mudderducker (Apollo)

It isn't the system's fault your clan was "hijacked" it is the fault of the managers/owner you are told quite explicitly to only give rights to those you 100% trust, it's clearly a user error.

- Poseidó̱nas

I really still don't understand why so many people in a clan have to have manager rights. I also don't understand how you guys keep allowing these alts to get up so far in your clan.

...

Everytime this has happened we've critiqued the people and told them that the reason they got hijacked was due to poor management/poor decisions, and yet everytime it's deflected with: This can happen to anyone.

No, it can't happen to anyone. The first step to solving a problem is to identify there is a problem. Solve your problems so that this doesn't happen again.

- Lolowut

Speaking from personal experience, the clans I have worked with have never had problems with security in our leadership. If you ever need inspiration, look to the clans that you don't hear about getting hijacked; chances are, they're doing something right. :)

- Forbidden Knowledge

Being diplomacy clan is no excuse.

- Genghis

All I'm saying here is:

- "Hijackings" only happen to clans with bad leadership; Semice isn't the problem here- Colonel is.

- If you want to solve the problem, ramping up punishment against "hijackers" isn't enough. The first, easiest, and best step is fixing the way you handle Manager Rights.

- The Wolves are not okay with our members hijacking clans.

- The Wolves have blocked Semice from clan leadership, revoked his title privileges, and issues him a final "don't hijack or we'll kick you out" warning, pending further evidence.

- There's also a lack of conclusive evidence- Semice has very clearly spent effort building his reputation as a "hijacker" and- as he's pointed out himself- all of his own confession statements are ambiguous and possibly were intended to take credit for the hijacking without actually confessing to it.

- Semice has also linked himself to a hijacking account called The Lone Wolf. As of right now, according to Warlight, The Lone Wolf and Semice are not playing from the same state. I've also accessed The Lone Wolf's mails (in the aftermath of the CORP hijack, and with his consent) and his language + large message history don't make it seem likely that the account is actually a Semice alt. It also doesn't seem very likely that Semice would use a proxy or a VPN to hide an alleged alt that he's already claimed as his. It came as a surprise to everyone- even Death, who'd been corresponding with The Lone Wolf for quite a period of time- when The Lone Wolf was alleged to be a Semice alt.

- Given that, here's a scenario I think might be likely- Semice is a troll. Semice has been building his reputation as someone who hijacks clans. Semice misled Colonel, Zephyrum, me, and other groups here into thinking that Royal Entente had been hijacked, and deliberately made semi-ambiguous statements in the process (which seems to have backfired a bit, tbh). He joined Royal Entente with one of the pending invites that just about everyone seems to have had, took advantage of the situation to get their members to join The Lost Wolves, and now directly denies his vague confessions.

- Given the nonzero likelihood of the previous scenario, I don't think it's prudent to punish Semicedevine further without more evidence (like confirmation by Fizzer that the hijacker was on the same IP address as Semice).

- Clan "hijacking" is also not in violation of Warlight policy (under which all MR transfers seem to be equal). A permanent ban here is not warranted, regardless of who's the actual "hijacker."

Edited 5/21/2016 02:59:38

As I have alredy told some people Semice don't have an ip match with the hijacker.

That being said, writing things like "I will explain everything later" certainly implies he is more informed that the rest of us. Personally I think that Semice would have said he did the hijacking if it was him, that is what he have done in the past anyway.

For wheter a clan hijacker deserves a perm ban or nah, well the account that did the actual hijacking got one. Throgh his main account may still be around.

Edited 5/21/2016 06:23:15

Thanks, TBest. I hate to push any work onto other people, but have you checked the IP address to see if it corresponds to any known proxy IPs? (e.g., does it turn up on a Google search?)

Don't worry if that's not possible; I'm not really in a position to be dictating your investigation.

Edited 5/21/2016 06:26:04