More importantly though, who is knyte when he doesn't have a reputation to uphold? Who is he when he feels he has no consequences? Who is he when he doesn't have to hide how he really feels? He is a troll through and through. He has proven it time and again that his word means nothing and he will trash anybody for a kick. You are worse than scum.
Yet he has done more for the community in a positive sense than you have.
I don't read the forums much, and certainly have made no attempt at following this dispute that has been between Mhunters and a section of the community who dislike them.
But like most people I'm sure, it is impossible to be unaware of it, because it spreads across countless threads over a time period of multiple months, and to be honest it disgusts me.
As an impartial observer who has no interest in this disagreement, more often than not it seems to me that the aggressors, like in this thread, are not Mhunters. I don't think I'm alone in finding attacks on an entire group of people based on nothing more than their clan tag to be incredibly disdainful.
I think the single person in this thread who makes the most sense was Super Smoove, who suggested you look at your own actions before you attack others. I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment.
Take a long hard look in the mirror, because what I see is someone who has become the very thing you claim to hate. Making a thread like this in my opinion is more harmful, and more damaging to the community than the combination of every one of the list of accusations you made against Mhunters.
I completely and unequivocally, reject the rhetoric of hatred which you are trying to spread.
I completely agree with holdway.
Its true that M Hunters have some problematic players and some questionable decisions in the past, but we can't consider that they're all like this. Players like Smoove and TBest are really cool and nice to talk to, other than being good players.
Also agree with Teamguns here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the first post in this thread:
The M'Hunters have
Not all MH members have done this. I know that you are fully aware of this but still it needs to be pointed out. Just because some members of the MH clan are behaving in a less positive way, doesn`t mean all of MH needs to be punished for it.
- made false or unproven accusations against multiple players and clans
- made personal attacks against multiple players and clans
This is not a problem with the MHclan, but with the WL fora. A lot of forumposts have become these type of post. This is what makes the forum a lot less enjoyable than it once was. Stop caring so much about what others say. If somebody derails, just ignore them. Instead a lot of players decide to engage them. Not only MH, but a large part of the community is to blame for the current state.
excused the above behavior when done by members of their own clan
On one side this is ofcourse hypocritical and not a thing to encourage. On the other hand it shows that they are a group and that they are ready to defend their clanmates when needed. (whether or not it is always good is another question)
mistreated many players, often on the grounds of lack of skill
Mistreating players on the grounds of skill is obviously not a good thing to do. But this is not limited to MH, nor do all members of MH do this. Some people are shallow and others are not. This doesn`t have anything to do with MH.
on multiple occasions, harassed other people (such as me and the Hysterical Koala) and clans (such as CORP- or in the condescending tone of Norman, "the Lawlz Clan") in threads completely unrelated to M'Hunters, derailing the discussion with uncalled-for personal attacks
Ive seen the other side do the same thing as well. To me it doesn`t even matter that much who does it. It is annoying anyways and shouldn`t be on a public forum. If you want to have a personal fight with somebody, do it in a private chat or so. The rest of the forum doesn`t care either way.
picked a known, egregious, willful ladder cheater (AI) to represent them in the maximum 3 tournaments in Clan League 8, thereby sending the message that- if you're a M'Hunter- you can cheat and get away with no consequences
What they do with cheaters is up to them. You might not agree with the way they handle this, but it doesn`t matter. They can do with a cheater whatever they want. The message they send out by taking certain actions will affect the way the community sees them. If they are seen as a clan that is ok with cheating, then that will have a negative effect for them recruitment wise. It is not up to us to force them to take certain actions. You might not agree with the way they handled AI, but that doesn`t mean they need to be banned for public events for it. If anything I would be disappointed at Fizzer, who didn`t do to much with it. Fizzer is supposted to stop cheating from happening (or punish when it has happend) much more than a clan is supposted to do so.
We made the wrong choice because it was easy.
Or the game became more popular. At first people who specifically searched for WL-like games would`ve found it. It has become easier for people to find this, so you`ll gain more trolls as well. If you look at most big popular games they`ll always have trolls everywhere. You simply can`t avoid them as your game grows. As far as I can remember we already had these complaints in 2013. Right now the fora are boring, but they have been a lot worse than they are now.
Also saying nothing changed is wrong. You (Knyte) changed. Enough trolls have changed after a while and actually joined the community. This is also partly connected to the way the community handles trolls.
I strongly request that we take action by excluding M'Hunters members (or at least the ones who behave badly, including- but not limited to- AyanM, Norman, AI, and Rogue Nikolai Krogius) from inter-clan events and other large Community Events.
The first part is worrying. Luckly you follow it up by saying "or at least the ones who behave badly". The players you listed are probably the most troublesome players from MH but this is how I see them:
-AyanM: I personally don`t mind him at all. I rarely see him on the fora. Although he might not always add the most usefull stuff, I don`t see him going around bashing people all the time.
-Norman: Norman has a huge ego. We have known this for a while and he reminds us constantly as well. But those kind of people excist. Just having an ego and thinking being good at a game means anything, doesn`t mean he needs to be banned from events. He usually doesn`t just randomly start bashing people. He starts to bash somebody when they act like they are better at the game than they actually are. He sometimes looks down on people, but that is just who seems to be. I don`t think he needs to be banned from any event just for being a bit cocky. Sportsmanship might not be his strongest point, but there are more people like that.
-AI: AI cheated, admitted it and then tried to play it off. Besides that he isn`t a bad person and there are no signs of him cheating on any public event. There is no need to ban him from anything. Besides he seems like an good person who just like to win a lot.
-RNK: Pretty much the same case as Norman. He has quite the ego. But he seems to be mainly attacking people who attack MH or who have frequently done so in the past. I can see how a person like Knyte will be annoyed at their behaviour. But for players like myself he isn`t really a problem.
Events like Clan League have removed clans in the past for undesirable behavior- like poor organization and lots of boots
This was usually because these clans made a group take very long or made the league partly unplayable. They were removed because they were annoying to have around. MH isn`t annoying in the clanleague. There is no reason to remove them (Unless they indeed broke the rules, like a later posted link suggests. But even in that case a ban is to much. Just punish them with less points.)
This thread stemmed from a long and rather dramatic series of comments in the Clan League 8 Division C thread- and we moved it to avoid further clutter.
In my opinion everybody who participated in those comments is a problem, not just MH. All of you make the forum annoying to read.
I've seen many M'Hunters in games, and while they're not always the best, they're always above average and frequently fantastic players
MH has good players. Nobody will argue with that. It is however irrelevant in this topic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of people have also spoken of "respect for MH" or something similar. IMO you shouldn`t have respect for any clan perse. I have respect for certain players. In some cases (for example Masters) this results in enough respectable players in one clan to respect the entire clan. Any clan with more than 50 members (such as MH) is really hard to judge. I haven`t even played with all members of the clan, let alone spoke with them. I can judge some players, but not the entire clan. And most people who are talking about respect for the clan are in the same position. You don`t know the entire clan, so don`t talk about respect about the entire clan. You might not respect certain players (and there are also MH members who I think deserve respect), but that doesn`t mean you should put it on an entire group. (imo you should never respect a group, but always individuals, but that is just me I guess).
