Don't you think excluding M'Hunters is a little bit too extreme? If you are really that convinced that they are cheating, just request to put a penalty down on them(more likely to happen than what you suggested) and deduct so many points. As for the disrespecting of other WL users, just report them and hope Fizzer takes it seriously. As of late, you guys are making it pretty hard for him to do that. The forum is quite a trash site these days and is being misused in a ton of ways. Odds are, that might be one of the reasons why Fizzer doesn't bother so much cleaning it all up. If we all contribute, maybe we might be able to convince him to do otherwise. It's your best bet! ;)

Idk if M'H cheated or not in the CL, if they have, they should be punished.

But really people, this is hilariously getting out of proportions, we have a reference to Hitler, and an Anti-M'H faction that behaviours like Trump. You don't realize that this is a game, and that you're taking this hole shit way too far? Calm the fuck down..

Just as a PSA and context:

1. M'Hunters are a good clan with lots of good people. I don't want people to walk out of this comparing them to Hitler for any reason. As I say in another thread:

None of these people are bad people, not even Nikolai or Norman... Norman's written indisputably the best strategy guide for beginners on this site. Nikolai has invested a lot of time and effort helping people build their strat skills in clans without a large strategic presence.

I also remember when someone used an alt called "Hell" to attack M'Hunters and how Norman was the first to jump to my defense when someone accused me of being behind things. When the AI thing initially happened, I tried to be as clear as possible that it was just AI, that his clan didn't know, that no one should blame M'Hunters (there'd been a bunch of previous incidents with other clans where the clan was blamed despite having no knowledge of their players' behavior and having done nothing to encourage it). And I'm glad Norman picked up on that and used the IP check privileges this site gives him as a moderator(?) to confirm that it was someone else. Most of my interactions with M'Hunters members have been great and have helped me grow as a player, too. I don't think any but maybe a few can say otherwise.

I really hope no one comes out of this believing I (or anyone else) sees them as inherently horrible or something. They've got their problems, and I think these hurt the community. Nothing beyond that. And yes, they should- like every other clan- have a chance to reform things internally. That's the only good route here. It's only if they decide not to fix things that the problem escalates. I wrote this when I believed they weren't fixing the problems and instead reacting to criticism with insults and harassment. But I'd be more than happy to be wrong about that, for all of this to be an overreaction on my part, for M'Hunters really being a responsible clan that doesn't tolerate abuse of other players, for all the stuff about Emu Pub/LTEmperor to not constitute cheating (like I say in the document I sent to both MotD and the public at large at http://bit.ly/mh-cl8-cheating- if the rule doesn't exist, forget about it and have a good day), etc.

But you're the community. You can judge that- or decide to stay out of it and let Fizzer or MotD take care of things; your call. I just wanted to supply and document information for the most part. Maybe see if I could get you guys to do something, but it's your choice not to if you think I'm off the deep end here. I appreciate how most members of the community have been respectful to both parties despite the subject matter. :)

2. Speaking of supplying and documenting information, and just for context- [IM]YouMustBeKidding is a suspected alt of Norman. For further documentation of that, consult OxTheAutist or Zephyrum (organizers of RP Clan League, which excluded [IM]YouMustBeKidding from competition on those grounds). I believe there's also a few [IM]YouMustBeKidding 1v1 games linked in one of those RP CL threads that tip it off, and you can also check their 3v3 ladder team (https://www.warlight.net/LadderTeam?LadderTeamID=11382) chat, turn speeds (and see how often Norman and YMBK make moves at the same time; compare that to the overlap between either of them and their other teammate), etc., but again- I think it's up to the community now and you can do your own research, make your own judgements. Not much I can really do or say past this point, and I'd rather stay out of things as much as I can to make this less personal and more about the community.

Again, apologies if my initial call to action did this, but I hope the conversation no longer stays extreme to the point that Norman doesn't feel comfortable unless he hides behind his alt or tries to use it NIGHT-style to make his opposition look more extreme.

Edited 7/21/2016 23:07:06

I think that is a reasonable post to end on.

What is this cancer?

But really people, this is hilariously getting out of proportions, we have a reference to Hitler

^ https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lei_de_Godwin

Muh fwees fwees. Knyte had his feelings hurt.

Funny, considering M'Hunters are the ones using personal attacks as a defence mechanism.

You wanna go another round Ox? Or is this your defense mechanism for how CORP is doing in CL8.

Edited 7/21/2016 23:10:47

- made false or unproven accusations against multiple players and clans

- made personal attacks against multiple players and clans

- excused the above behavior when done by members of their own clan

- mistreated many players, often on the grounds of lack of skill

- on multiple occasions, harassed other people (such as me and the Hysterical Koala) and clans (such as CORP- or in the condescending tone of Norman, "the Lawlz Clan") in threads completely unrelated to M'Hunters, derailing the discussion with uncalled-for personal attacks

Besides the fallacy of composition, the way you call out the community pointing us is replicating the hate rethoric of those claims. It's not exclusive to one clan, not from all their members.

The question is, if it's really that harmful? The players always have the options to blacklist and report a player if he is acting like a jerk.

- picked a known, egregious, willful ladder cheater (AI) to represent them in the maximum 3 tournaments in Clan League 8, thereby sending the message that- if you're a M'Hunter- you can cheat and get away with no consequences

I'm sorry if the community hates the way our CM's handle things, it may appear that we encourage cheating but we don't. We never promove the cheating just supported the player. It's a huge difference, as these are our clan values, we value more a friendship than the game. If it's morally wrong is open to the community, but still apart from the ladder there is nothing illegal in the CL affairs. The issue with the cheating corresponds to the WL authorities not the clan.

This was only my opinion as a MH member. Main is Espurr.

Edited 7/24/2016 03:36:40

I can see this is going nowhere, if this continues then the fora will only get worse. I propose this then, in matters that cannot be decided by Fizzer and is a dispute between two or more clans (that cannot be peacefully resolved) I recommend the two or more clans decide the issue by combat. A judge (an impartial mod or even Fizzer if he ever wanted to) will decide the map, rules and number of participants with regards to both the severity of the claim and the proposed punishment (with consideration to both clan's feelings on the matter).

This trial by combat, if you will, would be binding to whomever the winner is. Of course to protect clans from continued harassment a judge would deem if the battle should even take place. This would also be a form of good entertainment as it can be livestreamed so everyone interested in the matter or just the battle itself could view the outcome.

Now some of you may think "well the better clans will just beat up on the weaker ones" to which I have to say, this game is called warlight. If you weren't prepared for war then why the hell are you here? If you aren't prepared to test your steel against another's, if you aren't prepared to face all odds in the glorious arena called battle, then don't piss anyone off or make accusations you cannot back up.

Respectfully submitted,

[RE] Lord Kira

^ If he never said map then I would've interpreted it as a proper battle irl

Haha yes, I do mean in game. Also Semice, opposing clans are not supposed to be friendly towards one another. If it does lead to bad sportsmanship then that doesn't matter as they can just fight again and propose the penalties on the other clan. It may get heated but now there will be a way to professionally and properly take care of it that is binding and also amusing to an audience and much more productive than this. I do not discourage talking with one another and settling disputes that way, but when words fail then we should be able to take up action and not just whine and moan as that only hurts Warlight as a whole.

Respectfully submitted,

[RE] Lord Kira

Then neither of you have a "war", and if one of you does want one then an impartial judge will decide if there is even a good enough reason to battle (on a map that is).

Respectfully submitted,

[RE] Lord Kira

Edited 7/22/2016 03:40:36

Okay, so I'm going to take responsibility for the escalation of issues here. I clearly acted irresponsibly and used the wrong medium to express my problems. Moreover, I let honestly small problems rapidly grow into frustrations and heated personal attacks.

I'm not really in a position to claim the moral high ground or anything right now, so without any qualifications or whatnot, I'd like to just apologize to all the people I've alienated and all the personal hatred I've created over the course of what's at best a mishandled crusade. To Norman, AyanM, Krogius, Master of the Dead, Clan League competitors in Divisions A, C, and D, members of M'Hunters, Tabby/Chatul, the community at large, and everyone else who's been affected my irresponsible and poorly-thought-out behavior here, I'd just like to extend an apology. I understand if I've crossed to many lines for it to matter anymore and for this issue to be handled civilly past this point (if that's the case, I take full blame and responsibility).

I know this isn't enough from me and that I can't really wipe my hands of the drama at this point, but I can't see any better course of action I have after digging myself into this hole.

I'll take spicy memes for 600 Alex.

"A thread where knyte calls out mhunters and in the process hastens the slowing down of humanity"

What is this cancer?

I'll take stupidity for 1,000 Alex

"It looks like it is today's Daily Double"

"A person who wants to get attention by only commenting on a thread after it is done by ironically talking about the slowing down of humanity when in fact they are the ones responsible."

What is a Barbarian Troll/Genghis?

Correct! Doing that is being a Barbarian Troll/Genghis

Un-respectfully submitted,

[RE] Lord Kira

I'll take Accidents For 1000, Alex

"A noob to the internet that feeds trolls, wapanese trash, unable to roast to save their life and also attempts to mock but comes out looking like a complete squeeb, this person tried to sound intelligent but came off as the type of person who lost a chromosome or 2 during pregnancy"

What is [RE] Lord Kira?

Wrong. The question was actually "What is a World League clan Member?

Edited 7/22/2016 07:27:43

knyte, apologies accepted. Remember there's always more than one side that makes things escalate though.

And admitting a mistake or having taken things a bit too far is a great show of strength.
I find it a bit sad that even after almost 24 hours no one directly involved in the recent escalation answered here.

It would be great if you could start some constructive talk here. But I suppose that will not happen.

http://bit.ly/mh-cheating

---

I think that I've already tainted things enough that anything I say at this point will only lead to more heat and no progress.

That said- like I said before- the information still exists and the community (if it feels things are necessary) can constructively discuss it. You can find the most important stuff in http://bit.ly/mh-cheating and decide what it means and where to go when an alternative to Clan League mysteriously pops up in four weeks. I'd just like to do whatever I do from this point onward quietly and more responsibly.

Edited 7/23/2016 10:07:18