You completely missed the point, Plat.

You start by pointing out which clans that should be hit by a new rule. That should be the last step.
How can you not see that it's the wrong way? Are you so blinded by hate? Over a browser game? Really?

Edited 11/22/2018 13:33:41

Where did I start by pointing out which clans should be hit by a new rule? By simply stating an opinion that 101st/Lynx shouldn't be in the same division?

And stop acting like a psychotherapist. Asking 4 questions as if it's a bloody therapy session for a staged intervention.

Edited 11/22/2018 14:43:33

I would like to point out that despite all the complaining in this topic, nobody actually contacted the audit panel so far.
If anyone feels the ethics panel did take a wrong decision or is incorrectly claiming things, that's the way to go. Complaining in this topic will not change anything with respect to the verdict or how the panel judges the cases.
Also, if this is just a game to everyone, there is no need for long-winded drama either. Just continue playing, there are many competitions out there you can still join!



On the boots issue: I hope everyone is aware that these rulings are about the past when certain rules were in place. It's in no way an indication which way we should go in the future. From an independent point of view, I do hope the ethics panel takes all opinions about this into account moving forward.



Finally, for those talking about MotD doing so much for CL and then getting banned: please note first of all that I personally will not comment on the reasoning of the ethics panel or their verdict.
I do think everyone here either is, or should be extremely grateful for everything that MotD (and Beren) did for Clan League and Warlight/Warzone in general (join MDL!)
It's just not an excuse to break your own rules. Ignoring infractions because someone did many good things as well is also unacceptable, so at minimum what happened must be acknowledged. It's important for any society, including online communities that the people in power are not above the law and should not act as if they are above the law either. Rather, they should be a prime example for everyone around them. Several clans indicated that they would be very uncomfortable with MotD not getting punished because he ran the CLOT because it would give a clear message that those running the league don't have to follow their own rules.

As a hypothetical: How would we react if Fizzer looks through the fog in his games against us for example? Any competition he joined would be a joke with those playing fair at a disadvantage. Many people would be disgusted and call him out. The fact that he made the website would not be an excuse, but make it even worse than when a user would have found a hack to do this. But all of that would still not diminuish the fact that he spend countless hours making the game, website and app.




P.S.: do note that sloppyfatginger posting in this topic is likely not sloppyfatginger, but Cowboy.

Edited 11/22/2018 16:26:04

Yes ^

Lost a bet with xeno. If you want me to change it back, please mail him every day until he tells me to change it back.

you're right I'll just go complain to the absolutely useless committee that oversees the other absolutely useless committee about the aforementioned absolutely useless committee's rulings. I'm sure I'll find their report on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused bathroom with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.'

Edited 11/22/2018 22:08:44

reserved for updated Clan positions in past (and present) CL's

Any tentative date for the updated positions?

P.S: what are the other two reserved posts are for?

So I've been debating against a lawyer and a therapist all this time..

with. Against would suggest you had an agenda from the very beginning! ;)

Yes, that I don't want a feeder clan and an alpha clan in the same league! XD

But that's not because I'm "blinded by hate" as the therapist Rento says but because I'm against the general idea of it in the interest of competition.

Plat, you hateful son of a bitch.

A little history.:

When Lynx was made, JSA (a longtime WL friend) petitioned me (running CL) to give Lynx 101st division spot, so they would not have to promote. I denied that request. I said if you want your 'elite' players in the better division, then they need to stay in 101st, rather than moving them to a new 'clan'. It isn't fair to deny that slot to people still in 101st.

My point is that there is no way to consider them separate (they have never attempted to be that way). They had no problem trying to swap divisions for their needs before.

I am not saying you can/cannot have them in the same division. My only point is the admins of this CL must NOT consider them as separate individual clans...whatever they decide.

Also, WG/SNinja has no system and should not be part of this discussion.

We attempted to set up a system that never happened. We don't even have any shared members (almosttricky went back to Sninja, he was in both a while). All we have is a discord community we chat on.

They are completely separate clans.

I'll try to make my point even clearer.

When it's decided that some clan is not allowed to play in whatever division, they need to know what criteria they need to fill to change that decision.

If any limit is imposed on 101st or Apps or whomever only because they call themselves a training clan, then guess what. They'll simply stop calling themselves a training clan. And the same people as usual will start complaining about circumventing rules etc. And we'll have the same discussion about improving rules once again.

That's my point. If you want to make rules for it, go ahead. But do it properly, don't half-arse it.

So, any constructive suggestions? Like, joint management? Alts in each other's clan? I don't think that "because JSA contacted me in 2014" is a good basis, sorry Chris.

Edited 11/23/2018 20:35:05

I want a panel formed like the Ethics Committee to discuss this issue out and form their own conclusion so the league can move on.

far too serious guys, just give people bans so they can at least play one game next season 9like me), any clans can play anywhere, relax, chill, enjoy the fun of the game :)

@Math Wolf
A forum is where you were supposed to voice concerns I had thought? But the Clan Committee wants everyone that has an issue to mail them directly? I personally like "complaining" here and comparing thoughts and opinions on an open forum >.<

You can't compare Fizzer to Master of the Dead because we can't ban Fizzer...

To my knowledge in sports junior teams are not allowed to play in top division with their main teams. Even if they win 2nd league, they are not allowed to promote in order to avoid conflict of interest in mutual games.

I think its a good rule in sports.

@Everyone
What Nemo says is very unbiased and makes a lot of sense, especially considering this is the MOST competitive event we have on Warzone. Also we are not just discussing 101st, that is your sensitivity, but we are discussing Apprentice too. Don't make it all about yourselves...
I think there would be a conflict of interests, and it is a dangerous situation we should avoid. What if Masters helps Apprentice win games against their rival clan? Masters has already been punished multiple times for cheating. It is a situation that can and should be avoided due to problems that could surface. Cheating isn't something that can be stopped while its happening, it has to be prevented.


P.S. Breaking away from Lynx was the best thing 101st ever did. Now they've hit 2 straight podium finishes and sport a pretty cool new logo. If you want your clan in A division being independent is the best way to do it.

Edited 11/23/2018 21:39:18

So what exactly is your guyses main arguments against training clans being in the same division as the higher up clan thats "connected" to them???

very unbiased

It frustrates me so much when someone says "unbiased" in anything. There is no such thing as not having a bias.

What Nemo said was clearly biased. Nemo is biased towards not having sister clans play in the same division. What he wrote was a justification of his stance on the issue. It may be a really good point, but it is still a biased one.

I honestly have 0 problems with training clans being in the same league as a higher clan. But then again I don't have ethics.

The 101st/Apprentice argument is snoozeworthy, it's obvious that you shouldn't have two teams from the 'same clan' playing in the same division. But then having a training clan at all is just a bit pretentious......

Anyhow, Just wanted to annoy some people with that comment and also to thank the ethics panel for all their hard work. I don't agree with all of their decisions 100% but feel it's a very good effort on all their parts and one of the best workable solutions to the rule breaks.

I like what Rakleader said: Would be nice to be able to use a substitute midgame by agreeing to take over that account at the same time as a substitution for that player. Would prevent boots and mean people (Like myself) wouldn't choose to break the rules like that. TJC at the time had to decide whether we wanted to replace Rikku in ongoing games or throw away tons of points in a hotly contested division. Ultimately it boils down to whether people want CL Divisions to be won by the most skilled clan or the most dependable clan.