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lolololol

If we approach this as a conversation rather than an argument, this thread doesn't have to be polarizing. Is America a perfect country? Probably not. Is it a completely run by special interests? Probably not. The answer lies somewhere in between.

Any body should want to be open minded and make choices based on having as much knowledge as possible. Myhand is pointing out that there are elements in America that people may not be aware of because it is under represented (or unrepresented) in the media. Chomsky makes excellent points in manufacturing consent about how the establishment (he focuses on America - but his points translate to all countries) influences the majority of what the media actually report. So getting information from other areas is essential to having a balanced view of the state.

Chomsky by the way is American, so to is Howard Zinn A People's History of the United States both would likely never be able to get published in countries like China or North Korea. But in America they can be. America allows Dylan and it allows Joseph Heller Catch 22 A novel that energised the anti-war movement in the States a protest that showed the world that people can stop unpopular wars if they organise against them.

So America has in the past, does today and will again give ordinary people voices that other countries do not and will not. That is an amazing thing that should be celebrated and cherished. But you need to listen to them to hear them. In the same way if you only see one side of a coin you can only see that one facet of it.

Myhand isn't saying Americans make up an horrific dictatorship that is trying to destroy/take over the world. He is saying that in America there are people who gain a lot by pursuing their influence in the worlds only super-power to better themselves at the expense of their fellow citizens and the others around the world.

But we can equally talk about Americans who are doing good and great things for the rest of the world in many areas.

Edited 3/21/2015 04:20:06

Murica.....Lawlz

If we approach this as a conversation rather than an argument, this thread doesn't have to be polarizing. Is America a perfect country? Probably not. Is it a completely run by special interests? Probably not. The answer lies somewhere in between.

Exactly...

Edited 3/21/2015 19:20:21

Ottoman, Myhand, you guys seem to bring this back to the US whenever you can (I'm not even American :P). Seriously, it's like you have some sick, subconcious desire to be noticed by the US. You guys have some weird America fetish or something?

Myhand, Ottoman: "Oh! America, treat me like I'm your second Iraq. Go deep in me and take years to come out!"

Sounds like a party , I'm in .

Frankly, I think they have a right to be outspoken. So many hundreds of millions of people have had their economic and political rights trampled on and destroyed in the name of democracy and freedom.

If any other country even attempted to do to the US, what they did to several South America, Africa and Middle Eastern countries (i.e. funded terrorists to overthrow popularly elected governments and install military dictators), it would have resulted in unilateral total war.

You can't honestly expect the world to shrug it off and go "oh, well" when the US won't openly apologize, pay any sort of compensation. To add insult to injury they leave the countries worse off than they started and declare them "failed states".

It's the equivalent of your neighbor breaking into your home, stealing your valuables, setting everything else on fire and having all charges against him dropped.

What would you do in such a situation? Shrug it off?

Taisho, the problem isn't with people criticizing the U.S. The problem is people like myhand exaggerating the problems beyond proportion and trying to make the U.S out to be the next Nazi Germany when that's not the case.

Does America have problems? YES, we get that. There's a lot of things that need to be fixed. Is America the "worst country" and "greatest threat to humanity"? No. Also, as others have said myhand and ottoman tend to do nothing but point out problems. Never do they suggest solutions or point out anything positive. It's like listening to anti-U.S propaganda generated by North Korea to inspire their citizens to hate America with a passion.

HA, Missouri is full of fucking morons. It only like 1 step up from Mississippi

I'm pretty sure I've spotted you complaining about stereotypes more than once, don't be a hypocrite. Perhaps Missouri looks like hell to some people on the far-left but from an at-least moderate perspective it's not THAT bad of a place.

This attempt at debate has become about as useless as tic-tac-toe.

neither side wants to go home.

Just bring your army and kill everyone

@Genghis

Im with you


@TChosen1

I am talking about the US because the thread is about the US :P

Edited 3/26/2015 17:02:37

Gentian, both sides are certain they are right. Unfortunately one side has this attitude due to some serious indoctrination.

The USA is the BIGGEST threat to humanity. No other country has the potential and the willing to invade and damage so many countries, with casual disregard for the citizens on the ground. If it's in the USA's interests, fuck the innocent!

...
False

Second most powerful, though.

Gentian, both sides are certain they are right. Unfortunately one side has this attitude due to some serious indoctrination.

Seems to me both sides are having the same problem.

The USA is the BIGGEST threat to humanity. No other country has the potential and the willing to invade and damage so many countries, with casual disregard for the citizens on the ground. If it's in the USA's interests, fuck the innocent!

You could count the number of countries that the U.S has launched a full scale invasion of in the past 30 years with your fingers. Hardly a "threat to humanity".

Seriously,I'm tired of seeing that loaded term. It's exaggeration to the highest degree. Does U.S intervention in foreign countries cause serious problems? Of course,I've never denied that. Does it threaten humanity itself? Not at all.

^
Also true

The USA is the BIGGEST threat to humanity. No other country has the potential and the willing to invade and damage so many countries, with casual disregard for the citizens on the ground. If it's in the USA's interests, fuck the innocent!

Well, there's Russia and China to add to that list, as it were.

You could count the number of countries that the U.S has launched a full scale invasion of in the past 30 years with your fingers. Hardly a "threat to humanity".

1980-89: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#1980.E2.80.931989

1990-99: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#1990.E2.80.931999

2000-09: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#2000.E2.80.932009

2010-Present: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#2010.E2.80.93present

You were saying?

Taisho, perhaps I should clarify. I was talking about invasions, not military operations. A military operation does not constitute an invasion, many of the things on the above lists are airlifts, supporting legitimate groups already occupying any area, exercises, and so forth.


By invasion I meant large scale ground troops taking and occupying territory for a long period of time, fighting against the government of the local country, asserting full authority over the area. Name me some of those besides Iraq/Afghanistan that have occurred semi-recently.

Name something like that in the last 30 years that the US hasn't started, besides perhaps the Vietnam War.