Might i point out that people who cheat on the ladder do not take down a community?

Valid point, but for some people ladders are much more important than clans, especially those in ladders, and not clans. I'm arguing that they should be seen as somewhat comparable situations, whereas you claim they are not comparable, which I view as entirely false. However, despite a lack of confirmed guilt, semice is getting bashed, beaten, and if any one actually knew where he lived, probably death threats, as well as people claiming that TLW should do something counterproductive acts, where as in a ladder cheat scenario, even when confirmed, the most is asked is for the person to remove one account from the ladder, nothing more, nothing less(usually)

Fair point. But the take-down-the-community part didn't occur as a direct consequence of the hijackers' actions, either, rather as a result of Fizzer's intervention.

I get that Fizzer intervened- makes sense to keep the community running and happy- but his specific method (essentially freezing any management activity until the inactive original owner comes back and gets MR again) makes no sense to me and seems to have done much more harm than good, killing the chance of a quick recovery.

thats just so wrong Japan.... most people are blissfully unaware if someone cheats on the ladder. perhaps the top two or three might be affected, but to compare that with hijacking a clan? *smh*

Also..... you're giving Semice one chance and he's out if he does it again? Ummm what was said when you first accepted him into the clan knowing his past? No ultimatum then? i'm sure no clan would seriously have accepted him without one

Again, fizzar merely did what appeared sen sable. The blame ultimately on the hijacker.


And i will point out that most people who cheat on the ladder generally apologize and do not try and skapegoat fizzar when they hijack a clan.

Ummm what was said when you first accepted him into the clan knowing his past?

He's been in the clan much longer than I have. He's one of the original Wolves and has led the clan before.

Again, fizzar merely did what appeared sen sable. The blame ultimately on the hijacker.

Semice isn't scapegoating Fizzer here. I just think Fizzer unfortunately turned a bad situation into a terrible one. Whoever hijacked the clan had no way of knowing Fizzer would intervene- he hasn't before, especially not in the way he did- and take away any hope of the clan being quickly returned to Colonel/Recoil.

Edited 5/19/2016 05:02:56

Semice has been in the clan longer than knyte, and was in before knyte joined and took over. Also, He was in fact in charge of TLW for a few weeks at one point.

Way to make a topic uninteresting. 100 posts in like 1 day.

Conclusion1: be a good player and you can do what you want

Conclusion2: clans claiming to be fair without actually dealing with stuff like that are hypocrites and can't be taken seriously.

Conclusion1: be a good player and you can do what you want

Be really useful to any organization and you'll have to do more shit to get kicked out. Not unique to the Wolves. And it's not just because he's the best player in the clan and has single-handedly taken on the responsibility of developing the clan's players.

Moreover, Semice has been sanctioned by the Wolves even before his involvement's been established, and we're currently discussing more permanent sanctions should any conclusive evidence arise.

Not sure why we're getting shit on here.

Edited 5/19/2016 05:22:36

emice currently denies that he was responsible for the hijacking (there's been statements both ways), so I honestly don't know what's up and I hope there's some conclusive information we can get from Fizzer.

and

There's no actual evidence that semice did it atm, and He hasn't admitted doing so in private clan forums, as such we're holding this situation as innocent until guilty.

"OH CRAP FIZZER SUSPENDED THE ALT NUUUUUUUUUU WTF I FORGOT TO GIVE MR TO MYSELF :(" -Semice

Seriously we are never 100% sure of what happened, but this statement above leads me to think Semice has something to do with this hijacking.

Under mine? There was only Achilles. In any case, I had no control over who had MR- that fell entirely to Kazuki. That's exactly why I left CORP to run Optimum and now TLW- here my leadership is not compromised by people who have much more power than they should.

And still under your leadership, Achilles hijacked the clan, if your management is as good as it sounds, you could have removed his MR way before as we both knew how dangerous Achilles could be. But I suppose it was an obvious case of "failure of leadership" and you were the one main responsible of this, admit it or not, more than the hijacker himself (according to your own opinion on this since you minimize Semice hijacking and cast the blame mainly on the managers).

And this is very hypocrite from you about Kazuki as he never disagreed anything we did, he was very permissive and I am sure that if you wanted to remove MR to his friend Achilles, he would have agreed and understood the point of this. This could have prevented this hijacking, but still you did nothing at all.

in charge of The Lost Wolves, and personally I think it's a responsibility of clan management to always side with your members when they need you to

And here again despite many points proving Semice is behind it, you do not judge necessary to take direct actions against him (clan banning at the very least), you are criticizing people that lost their clans, without even knowing really how it really happened, whereas you are keeping a potential hijacker in your clan. And you finally minimize his wrongdoings, because you are biased in that matter obviously: As you said earlier you defend the Wolves as you are "in charge" of this clan, that's perfectly understandable, but you should avoid posting here, since it is obvious you have no objectivity at all here.

The Semice statements are weird; he's both vaguely confessed to it and directly denied it. Honestly, it's possible that he's just taking credit for a bunch of hijackings he didn't commit to build a reputation as the guy behind every hijack.

I looked at The Lone Wolf yesterday, and one thing I noticed was that The Lone Wolf plays from Maine while Semice plays from South Carolina- perhaps Semice does consistently use a proxy/VPN, or they just aren't the same person and Semice took credit.

If The Lone Wolf is an alt, it's a rather well done one; the mail history was way too fleshed out for the average alt.

you could have removed his MR way before as we both knew how dangerous Achilles could be

I did not have the authority to remove Achilles' MR. That was up to Kazuki entirely. He was in charge of appointments/removals to the GC as well. Like I said, his failure at that position- having an mostly-inactive GC for over a month, having MR in the wrong hands- is why I left.

Edited 5/19/2016 15:59:16

What I don't understand is how the wolves think they can both keep Semice in the clan and maintain "respected clan" status at the same time.

I see that more as a one or another decision.

If Semice has violated Warlight policy, let Warlight handle it.

Right now:

- There's no confirmation that Semice was even responsible for the Royal Entente hijack

- Semice denies responsibility and involvement

- At least one previous hijack-alt claimed to be linked to Semice (The Lone Wolf) is very clearly not associated with Semice

- People (like Colonel) are accusing Semice of two other hijacks (Bakkah Mecca and some other irrelevant, mismanaged RP clan) that were confirmed to be linked to someone else entirely

Even then, given just pointed fingers and vague statements, the Wolves have placed sanctions against Semice and will take further measures if any real evidence pops up.

But then here comes the mob again, telling us to straight-up kick out Semice before the investigation's even completed.

Yeah, no. If that's what it takes to have "respected clan status," we don't care for it. If The Lost Wolves are going to lose whatever reputation we have while utterly mismanaged clans like Royal Entente get to play the victim card and ignore their own leaders' role, if any attempt to talk about Colonel's failure to take the simplest security measures and Fizzer's utterly botched attempt at intervention/rescue, then I'm even glad we're lacking the "respect" of this community.

Y'all are just walking into this conversation with the axiom that the Royal Entente's leadership is some sort of victim when they're clearly not- and when someone directs your attention to Colonel's obvious misunderstanding of how Manager Rights work, you call it "victim-blaming." You don't just get to say "take-backsies" on Manager Rights and pretend that completely invalidates your transfer- when you give someone MR, you're completely acknowledging that they could do anything with them. That's why every sane clan keeps their MR under very tight control, and that's why you only see these "hijack" issues in dysfunctionally-managed clans.

I'm out. There's no point to this discussion. If you have an issue, take it up with Fizzer instead of applying mob "community pressure" for vigilantism.

Edited 5/19/2016 20:18:38

Totally with knyte on this one- stop giving him shit over keeping a valuable member who we aren't even sure did anything wrong.

Regardless of who contributed to this mess, the only one with an agenda, and the only one who was planning on causing problems was semice. As far as i'm concerned he's where most if not all the blame lies.

The problem is that neither you nor him are doing anything. What little punishment you have given means close to nothing.



@knyte

Edited 5/19/2016 20:43:49

Wtf do you care how much he is punished. Like knyte said, there is no solid evidence concerning Semice's involvement, so it's silly to boot out a valuable member because "we think you did this one thing".

Who said anything about booting?

plus he claimed to do it on several occasions. Even giving specific examples.

keeping a valuable member who we aren't even sure did anything wrong.

@Epicular
Did you pay attention on Semice's statement or not?
Another point that goes against Semice is that I was invited to RE, and I had the occasion to check their forum, what I found there is that Semice made a thread encouraging RE members to leave their clan for Wolves, tell me what's the point of this then?

I looked at The Lone Wolf yesterday, and one thing I noticed was that The Lone Wolf plays from Maine while Semice plays from South Carolina

he could have used VPN and proxies easily to hide is identity. Frankly I do not see how you could not think about it.

That was up to Kazuki entirely. He was in charge of appointments/removals to the GC as well. Like I said, his failure at that position- having an mostly-inactive GC for over a month, having MR in the wrong hands- is why I left.

As I said earlier, Kazuki is very permissive, and you could have told him your idea about removing Achilles earlier from management I am sure he would have understood, Kazuki is busy IRL this is also why he was often inactive, but frankly how can we criticize him about it? You are very harsh with him whereas he gave you a chance to manage a clan and a first experience for free.


And I do not see why you keep believing naively about what Semice says, the fact that he "denies" does not mean he is not behind it.
Many things goes in favor of Semice being the true hijacker more than the contrary, not only because he is well experienced in that matter (with his previous alt), but because he had a very troubling statement (explain me why he said this?) and also the last thread he made in the RE forum encouraging RE members to leave their clan for the Wolves just after the hijacking, imho it rather seems to be a cunning move, taking advantage of the trouble he made in that clan to attract more people to his own clan.

Edited 5/19/2016 21:06:57

I had an invite to RE two days before the hijacking happened. I doubt that was Semice's doing.

Because really, I was LORD HACKER I/I hate this game. I hijacked RE. :)

you could have told him your idea about removing Achilles earlier from management I am sure he would have understood

I actually did ask Kazuki about removing Achilles' MR. He didn't even agree to it after the hijack.

Edited 5/19/2016 21:11:29