Fizzer just posted a blog post https://www.warzone.com/blog/index.php/2024/10/clan-wars-season-56/
For more details (and questions) no the proposed changes, see https://www.warzone.com/Forum/774594-update-529-discussion

I have some questions about things in the post, and I'm sure others have it too, so I'll ask these in the forums so everyone can see the answer and maybe ask their own questions as well if they have them.

I hope that everyone can get their questions answered before the changes go into effect, as it will affect the ~3000 members from the clans currently playing CW. (~475 of those actually playing in CW).

EDIT:
For those finding this later, see https://www.warzone.com/blog/index.php/2024/10/update-5-30-clan-wars-refresh/ as well.
Ask Fizzer Anything thread for this update: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/793326-fizzer-ama-20241028
Template suggestion thread: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/793323-post-suggestions-new-clan-war-templates

Edited 10/26/2024 22:11:41

My questions to kick this thread off can be found below.
I suspect these can only be answered by Fizzer, but anyone is free to chip in if you have any information.

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Today, rewards are tied to a specific territory earned on the clan war map, but starting with season 56, in-season rewards will instead be given out based on the number of wins that the clan members get during the season

Why are wins no longer tied to territories? Are the territories awarded according the point system instead of the number of wins now?
Or does this mean does that mean that the rewards are now individually per clan member?

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It’s important that all players claim their in-season rewards before the next Warzone update goes live. After the next update, in-season rewards earned prior to the update will not be claimable anymore.

I, like several other players, was saving up my rewards before Super Ascension so they could be used after SA.
The reason for this is that the CW seasons are longer than the 2 weeks the rewards last, so using them when you most need them in Idle seemed like a great idea.

However, with the end of the season, we will effectively lose our entire stockpile of rewards.
While I only have for about 2 CW seasons of unclaimed rewards left, I'm sure there are people with plenty more.
Can we be compensated (at least a little bit) for the rewards that we won't be able to use?

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Once the new update goes live, there will be a blog post describing all the details about everything that changed.

The big unanswered question from the Update 5.29 Discussion was which way the points for the ranking would be calculated. (And more specifically, if it would be based on total clan members or total CW players from the clan.)
Can you elaborate on how the point system is going to work?

I understand that Fizzer might want to keep some surprises, but for the 3000 affected players, it's important to know what's up before they are locked into a CW season in a clan they might not want to play for.

Will the current season be tracked as the new ones will be, or will I have to collect that one as well before S56 starts?

Why are wins no longer tied to territories?

Wins are still tied to territories, but rewards aren't. Today clan wars end when the map fills up (when there are no territories left). This isn't ideal, since it means that sometimes some wins won't be counted if they come in after the map is full, and it also means that the season can end in the middle of a day which isn't fair to people who were planning on playing the last timeslot.

Starting with 56, the season always ends at midnight GMT. This means the season can continue for a bit even when there are no territories left on the map. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to tie rewards to territories, and instead we just tie them directly to wins. It's a simpler system, easier to understand, and more fair.

The reason for this is that the CW seasons are longer than the 2 weeks the rewards last

I'm attempting to make the seasons shorter, and I'm also considering increasing the reward duration to be 3 weeks instead of 2. The idea is that as long as you're continually active in clan wars you should be able to have the x-week rewards active most of the time for the rewards your clan achieves each season. Originally clan war seasons were aimed at being 2 weeks long which is why the rewards were set to two weeks, but they ended up taking more like 3.

if it would be based on total clan members or total CW players from the clan

Final rankings will be based on total clan members, minus 25 reserve seats that every clan gets. This keeps things fair for clans of different sizes competing with each other. This is only specifically for the final rankings which are based on points. In-season rewards are based on wins and therefore not affected by clan size. Full details will be announced on the blog soon. Clan wars is like a team sport, as opposed to something like the ladder which is an individual competition. Therefore final rankings in clan wars should be reflective on the entire team's strength, not just a few cherry picked super stars.

Will the clan size still be unfair or are you moving towards equal clans?

Do you steal the rewards not used or will you compensate for those?
You know very well we have no chance to use 100 weeks of rewards in about 2 weeks.

"It’s important that all players claim their in-season rewards before the next Warzone update goes live."
...
"This doesn’t apply to end-of-season rewards, which will remain claimable even after the update. So you don’t have to worry about those."

What is the difference between "in-Season" and "End-of-Season" rewards?

As many have mentioned, it's common to stockpile their CW rewards to use when they are most efficient for them. So taking them (or some of them) away now with little advance warning seems rather callous.

Could someone clarify (give examples of) which rewards will be lost and which will stay?
I'm assuming it has to do with Territory Rewards vs Rank Rewards?

Territory Rewards
Rewards received immediately when your clan earns the required number of territories

Rank Rewards
Rewards received at the end of the season based on your clan's final rank.

If so, I would say that the more important one to be able to stockpile is the Territory Rewards as they contain very useful (and difficult to acquire) bonus' like:
Reduced artifact cooldown time by 30% for two weeks
AP received from levels increased by 15% for two weeks

I wouldn't care so much if the Rank Rewards were taken (by comparison).

As someone that has something like a dozen seasons worth of territory rewards stockpiled, it's very not cool that they're being rugpulled with so little notice that it's impossible to use them all before they go away. If you could stack them, that would be another matter, but that's not how they work today.

Final rankings will be based on total clan members, minus 25 reserve seats that every clan gets. This keeps things fair for clans of different sizes competing with each other. This is only specifically for the final rankings which are based on points. In-season rewards are based on wins and therefore not affected by clan size. Full details will be announced on the blog soon. Clan wars is like a team sport, as opposed to something like the ladder which is an individual competition. Therefore final rankings in clan wars should be reflective on the entire team's strength, not just a few cherry picked super stars.

I am also quite concerned about the planned changes to CW. The initially outlined changes from awhile ago have multiple possible interpretations that range from benign to disastrous, and the exact meaning was never clarified. Today's update still does not clarify the exact details, but the quoted text (emphasis mine) suggests you are planning to roll out a disastrous set of changes.

You join a game for the game, but you stay for the community. Clans are a big part of that community.

If the intention is that everybody in a clan must do everything (Classic, Clan Wars and Idle) all of the time, then that just flat out doesn't work. Even the tryest of tryhard clans struggles to get anywhere close to that. In TLA we have a mix of people who fall somewhere along the lines of:
- play CW most days
- play CW mostly just for the Idle rewards
- never play CW and mainly play Idle
- are AFK for long periods of time (weeks to years)
- mostly don't play anymore but are still a part of the community

TLA may have 170 members today, but something like 120-130 of those members have no interest in Clan Wars, yet still both add value to the clan and benefit from being in it. I'm sure Fizzer can confirm this just by looking at the numbers, but it's obvious to anybody who's in a clan larger than a couple members (and the same goes for most any clan in any game, really). Expecting clans to split up into "Pure Idle" and "Pure CW" is a great way to destroy existing communities. Plus, if that's the intention, then what's the point of having Idle rewards for CW? Even if we completely ignore Idle for a moment, expecting every clan member to be 100% in for Clan Wars (or anything close to that) is deeply misguided.

Today, I play Clan Wars every day. However, depending on how the proposed changes shake out I may well stop playing entirely if you're going to arbitrarily penalize clans larger than 40 or 50. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Don't be surprised if all of the top 6 CW clans (except maybe MB) stops playing CW entirely if you roll out these changes.

If your intention is to get more people playing Clan Wars, then this isn't the way to do it.

Imo this should incentivize people to play more. He is increasing rewards, decreasing length of season, and decreasing number of wins required for rewards. But time will tell, WHEN CAN WE VOTE IN NEW TEMPLATes mr fizzER

TLA may have 170 members today, but something like 120-130 of those members have no interest in Clan Wars

Imagine an organizer of a professional football team. The team's goal is to make it to the championship game and ultimately win the most prestigious prize in the world. The organizer gathers his players to make his team. But, sadly, 75% of his players don't want to play football. They want to sit on the bench and watch the remaining 25% play. They're needed in the game, and he asks them to go in, but they say "No sir, I don't want to play. I'm not very good at football." Will this team be successful in their goals of winning the championship?

Clan Wars is a team sport. Your clan war ranking is a reflection of how good your clan is at clan wars. A clan where most people are very bad or refuse to play outright should never get anywhere near the #1 rank in my opinion.

WHEN CAN WE VOTE IN NEW TEMPLATes mr fizzER

This update will also allow voting for new templates. The update contains a built-in system for ranked choice voting so players can rank templates in the order they most desire them.

Clan Wars is a team sport. Your clan war ranking is a reflection of how good your clan is at clan wars. A clan where most people are very bad or refuse to play outright should never get anywhere near the #1 rank in my opinion.

But Clans aren't football teams. They're more akin to athletics clubs. Suppose you've got a football league that works like Clan Wars, where you're penalized (on the margins, past the 25 threshold) for any member of your club that doesn't participate in the league.

Now suppose you're an athletics club that wants to also have members who play hockey or tennis or basketball. Your football team will suffer in the rankings because you've added a basketball team.

There's more to clans than Clan Wars. There should be. Clans pre-date Clan Wars by nearly a decade. You will have members who join the Clan just for Idle requests. You will have members to have friends to play diplomacy with. You will have members that join for Clan League or to focus on the ladder or to find a mentor or just to chat with friends. Just as FC Barcelona Basquet's members don't have to play for FC Barcelona's soccer team or affect FC Barcelona's soccer ranking, al of those members shouldn't have to play Clan Wars (or penalize the rating of the Clan Wars team).

Clans aren't just Clan Wars teams. Clans are clans.

/2c

Edited 10/24/2024 22:01:53

Therefore, it doesn't make sense to tie rewards to territories, and instead we just tie them directly to wins. It's a simpler system, easier to understand, and more fair.

Nice, I always found the territories a gimmick that functioned more as a proxy for the number of wins (which is where CW is actually based on).

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The idea is that as long as you're continually active in clan wars you should be able to have the x-week rewards active most of the time for the rewards your clan achieves each season.

That would be great :) And then not "most of the time" but the entire time!

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In-season rewards are based on wins and therefore not affected by clan size.

I'm glad to hear that, at least there is some point for people to keep playing CW then.

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Can we be compensated (at least a little bit) for the rewards that we won't be able to use?

This has been brought up 3 times in global chat this evening alone.
A 2 week notice to spend what is for some players several months of rewards is not quite sufficient in my opinion.
Are we just out of luck and being penalized for optimizing our idle game?

Perhaps too technical of a question, but why can't the rewards be converted to the new system?
I would assume that every unclaimed reward can be mapped back to an equivalent # of wins, and based on that should just be able to be converted to the new system.

New templates ! Rejoice ! :D

What is the difference between "in-Season" and "End-of-Season" rewards?

As many have mentioned, it's common to stockpile their CW rewards to use when they are most efficient for them. So taking them (or some of them) away now with little advance warning seems rather callous.

Could someone clarify (give examples of) which rewards will be lost and which will stay?
I'm assuming it has to do with Territory Rewards vs Rank Rewards?

The in-season rewards are the territory rewards. These will be lost when Season 56 starts!
• [1 territory] Alloy sell values increased by 10% for two weeks
• [2 territories] Mercenaries are 10% cheaper for two weeks
• [3 territories] Item sell values increased by 10% for two weeks
• [4 territories] Reduced artifact cooldown time by 30% for two weeks
• [6 territories] Army camps boosted by 40% in challenge levels for two weeks
• [10 territories] Armies received from caches increased by 10% for two weeks
• [15 territories] Reduced artifact dig times by 20% for two weeks
• [20 territories] AP received from levels increased by 15% for two weeks
• [25 territories] Attacks against you in Idle battles reduced by 20% for two weeks

The end-of-season rewards are the rank rewards, which are:
• [1st] 15,000 coins / 1 rare artifact / 1 of every idle power
• [2nd] 10,000 coins / 1 rare artifact / 1 multi level power
• [3rd - 5th] 3,000 coins / 2 uncommon artifacts / 2 time warp powers
• [6th - 9th] 2,000 coins / 1 uncommon artifact / 1 free cache power
• [10th - 20th] 1 uncommon artifact / 1 free cache power
Note: coins are total for the clan, and will be divided among all players that won a CW game

fizzer, you’re comparison to a football team is way off the mark. clans are more akin to an artist collective or (if you need sports), an athletic club with teams in multiple sports. the clubhouse is for all players not only those that play football.
by counting points against total clan size (minus 25) you are penalizing someone who likes cw for being in a clan (and maybe friends) with some only interested in ffas.
if instead you took the number of players participating in a season (still open for everyone) it would allow players from different disciplines to still mingle without penalty.

This update will also allow voting for new templates. The update contains a built-in system for ranked choice voting so players can rank templates in the order they most desire them.

That is amazing!
Should have put that in the blog post lol, or was this one of the things you wanted to keep as a surprise?

How many voted templates will there be active in CW?
Will the selected templates remains fixed for the duration of a season?
Which templates will be available to be voted on?

can we have multi day clan wars someday?

Imagine an organizer of a professional football team. The team's goal is to make it to the championship game and ultimately win the most prestigious prize in the world. The organizer gathers his players to make his team. But, sadly, 75% of his players don't want to play football. They want to sit on the bench and watch the remaining 25% play. They're needed in the game, and he asks them to go in, but they say "No sir, I don't want to play. I'm not very good at football." Will this team be successful in their goals of winning the championship?

This is a a reasonable stance if Clans exist for exactly one purpose, which is to compete in Clan Wars. Is that the only purpose of Clans in Warzone? If so, why does Clan Wars give Idle rewards? Idle is totally unrelated to Clan Wars after all. Also, why can clan members fill one another's Idle requests (armies/money) when that's also totally unrelated to Clan Wars? Why is participating in Clan Wars optional for Clan members if that's the only purpose of a Clan?

I will echo the sentiments of others above me that Clans are (and should be) about far more than just playing Clan Wars.

One of the stated goals for the new Clan Wars system is to make it fairer for everybody. You're right that the current system isn't fair for the capped clans, but the reason it's unfair is because they're being robbed of a big part of the community aspect of a Clan. The Clan size cap can simply be removed and that problem is solved.

As far as fairness of Clan Wars goes, every clan already has a cap on the roster size of 40. Due to the fact that rank is calculated by wins only, this results in a participation game where win rate basically doesn't matter. In the proposed system things are fundamentally the same except 40 is replaced with 25, there is essentially zero incentive (and often negative incentive) for anyone beyond 25 to play, and win rate still doesn't really matter. We go from a participation game to a participation game and nothing fundamentally changes.

That being said, in the proposed system it would be a trivial change to calculate points with a denominator of the number of people who played that day (or perhaps season) rather than the total size of the Clan, and that would completely solve my biggest concerns with the proposed changes.

I fail to see how destroying communities in a game does anything to embiggin the game or clam wars

Those people who have not played clam wars, I doubt too many of them will start now.

The choice is either to kick them out and have them join non clam war teams, or get nerfed with what is now dead weight.

I don't understand why you can't just let people who don't want to play clam wars just be.

As someone who actually does play clam wars.

I like being in TLA, it's a good group, but it seems if they don't get all try hard and start booting people which is bad, my options are to either find a new smaller clam which is bad, or keep playing and see my efforts get nerfed, not because of any on the field performance but because we have a "large fan base or a large firm" to carry the sports analogy, or stay in TLA and just not bother playing clam wars anymore

Most people are raising serious objections to this and they are being totally ignored. It's a bad idea.

Due to popular demand, I've found a way to allow old clan war rewards to continue to be claimable after the update. I have updated the blog post to disregard that section. However, going forward, starting with season 56, any rewards you don't claim for more than a month will be lost. The 2-week rewards aren't meant to be stockpiled and saved up, they're meant to be used. Choosing to not claim it is essentially declining it.

In Canada we have what's called an RRSP (Registered Retirement Savings Plan); 401k in the USA.

As much as I'm very appreciative of not deleting all our old CW rewards [thank you listening to our pleas of sorrow Fizzer], I'm a bit sad that going forward, we will (to use financial terms) be forced spend all our CW reward "money" paycheck to paycheck, without the ability to save for retirement - beyond a month anyway.

Just think of all the old people out there who will now have to continue to work, playing CW games, well into their 90's in order to continue to put that 15% idle AP bonus on the table - the elderly single mother trying to feed her sick child a fresh batch of 30% artifact cooldown. The humanity!

But alas, I guess we will just have to live by the mantra YOLO (as the kids say nowadays) and burn up all that cash as it comes in.